A pretty good representation of my beliefs.
Matthew James Davis isn't so much frustrated at the pain of being hurt; is frustrated that the only thing he did wrong was trust people without the emotional, intellectual, or ethical capacity to warrant any trust. I am my greatest capital, and I'm a fool to invest it carelessly.
Beth Lewter at 7:03am July 15
so what i hear you saying is that you are trustworthy and the other person is not, and that you are righter / better than this emotionless, stupid, unethical, incapacitated individual. Elevating your worth above another. It seems to me that life isn't as much about choosing the trustworthy people as it is about accepting the fact that we are all imperfect and this hurts and learning to deal with this reality in a healthy way. Conversely, it has been my experience that those who want to put their trust in God above all else are the most vulnerable to misplaced trust in people ... there is something very wrong with that and I have yet to figure out why I do this over and over!! One of my favorite proverbs is "Trust no man - trust God only". We have no reasonable expectation that others will be trustworthy enough to save us from pain. :) Why is it that we aren't "happy" when we find out for certain another is not trustworthy it seems I may want to rejoice about knowing that!
Matthew James Davis at 7:25am July 15
It's very true. Because when we trust God, our trust is well placed. We begin to assume that all trust may be well placed. In my case, I thought I was placing my trust in someone who trusted God. That was my mistake.
As for the elevation comment, assuming that "all people are bad" is not the same as assuming "some people are worse than others." I argue the latter. But even so, I strive to be good. I strive to consider every decision, and believe that each one counts for something. I'm not as untrustworthy as some people, who attach no gravity to their decisions.
Beth Lewter at 10:14am July 15
:) I don't believe in Good people and bad people ... only people equal in value regardless of their decisions. People that make good choices and people that make bad choices. I agree it is unhealthy to view all people as bad people. I don't doubt for a minute that you conciously make wise choices and do in fact accomplish that ... and you will reap the benefits of that!
Matthew James Davis at 10:34am July 15
I don't believe anyone is precluded from good or bad decisions. But good people make good decisions constantly, and bad people make mad decisions constantly. It's a spectrum and I'm sure its normally distributed, and I know people can move up and down it at will.
But I don't meet people that do.
Laura Hartman at 10:53am July 15
Mind if I join the conversation? We are all born bad. Original sin and all that. We all can be forgiven because Jesus died for us, which means every bad person has the potential to become a righteous (good) person through Jesus Christ. BUT we all fight a spiritual war against our flesh and the world and the enemy, right? So every good person has the potential to really mess up and hurt others, behaving very badly. Enter forgiveness. If Jesus offers it to us, we must offer it to others, unconditionally. 70 x 7, right? Not just to Christians, not just to friends or family, not just to the deserving. How will the world ever know Jesus forgives if we as Christians do not forgive like He does?
I don't know who hurt you or how Matthew. But I'm praying that God will comfort you and bring you into a place of absolute forgiveness, because that, precious and valuable man, is also the place of absolute healing of the heart and spirit.
Matthew James Davis at 10:54am July 15
Thanks Laura. I'm just feeling crappy. But you're right, absent forgiveness I'll harbor resentment. Thanks for praying for me.
Beth Lewter at 2:03pm July 15
I'm uncertain as to which things are beyond my ability to change and which aren't. I'm a terribly inconsistent person ... does this make me unstable ... or changeable? If I apply your logic that one's position on the good / bad spectrum is determined "at will" I'd have to say I'm a bad person because I've made bad decisions over and over and over (the same ones more than once!)
Good / bad sounds an awful lot like right / wrong - why does it have to be about good and bad, right and wrong? Can't it be about .... relationship? How does good relate to bad between people? Or how does right relate to wrong between people? Acceptable or Unacceptable? For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. So if you are right (trustworthy) and she is wrong (untrustworthy) does that make you acceptable and her unacceptable? Are you mad at me yet?
Beth Lewter at 2:08pm July 15
The world can know forgiveness even if Christian's don't example it because GOD is powerful enough to do that all by himself and every individual has access to God.
Matthew James Davis at 4:15pm July 15
Not mad at you, I just find your logic, well...
"If I apply your logic that one's position on the good / bad spectrum is determined "at will" I'd have to say I'm a bad person because I've made bad decisions over and over and over (the same ones more than once!)"
Would you be mad at me if I agreed with that statement, in a broader sense? If you make terrible decisions over and over, and never learn from them, then yes, you're being a bad person. But you act like those decisions are an inevitibility. Thats the hallmark of a bad person, a lack of responsibility. Not a single action you take is inevitible. You're responsible for them. You determine your choices
"So if you are right (trustworthy) and she is wrong (untrustworthy) does that make you acceptable and her unacceptable?"
I don't like the word acceptable. I'd say ethical. And yes, If I make good decisions and she makes bad decisions, then I am by definition more ethical than she.
Beth Lewter at 6:31pm July 15
No need for me to be mad - you are not my judge (whew whee!) - God is and I am confident to stand before him right this very second. Ah yes ... responsibility ... so it is possible to be absolutely responsible? And, if one is more ethical than another that means the value of the life of that person is more or less? Would that mean that my salvation is contingent upon my own power to be responsbile? I think my salvation has been brought about by the power of Jesus Christ not my ability to be absoluetly responsible.
Matthew James Davis at 11:14pm July 15
"you are not my judge - God is"
Paul placed the responsibility of accountability on brothers and sisters in the faith.
"And, if one is more ethical than another that means the value of the life of that person is more or less?"
Value? To whom? I mean precisely that a person is more or less ethical than another. If you value being ethical, then you'll be more valuable to yourself if you're more ethical.
"Would that mean that my salvation is contingent upon my own power to be responsbile?"
Your salvation is contingent upon faith in Jesus Christ. Your faith is indicated by the gravity you attribute to your actions. Jesus didn't say "think about maybe taking up your cross weekly if you feel like it and heading in my general direction." He charged us with a responsibility. If you take your salvation seriously, you will take your responsibilities to it seriously.
Beth Lewter at 12:44am July 16
Thanks for the sermon Matthew .... I was raised by a preacher. I'm quite clear on Biblical theology taught by Christians. My intent was to encourage you, obviously it didn't go that way, so sorry. I was responding to your display of pain. Your statement that your only wrong was to trust the wrong person is a childish blame statement that ... Read Moresuggests you are in charge of ever being hurt by anyone by always making wise decisions. That simply is an untruth. Our "charge" to responsibility does not negate the number one thing, being loving. It simply isn't loving to publicize someone else's "wrong" as you did above - It is arrogant - a put down. Also, it is unrealistic to believe that it is possible to never ever make a foolish mistake - more than once! The way I see it is that you wouldn't be in pain if you in fact believed yourself to be good enough. All my sins forgiven yet still I sometimes find I won't forgive another - who's sins are just like mine.
Matthew James Davis at 10:34am July 16
"Your statement that your only wrong was to trust the wrong person is a childish blame statement that suggests you are in charge of ever being hurt by anyone by always making wise decisions. That simply is an untruth. Our "charge" to responsibility does not negate the number one thing, being loving."
These are not opposed, responsibility and love. One cannot negate the other.
"It simply isn't loving to publicize someone else's "wrong" as you did above - It is arrogant - a put down."
Validating someone elses mistake as "their choice" and "whatever makes them happy" seems to be the best alternative to calling it a mistake. Is that the loving attitutde I should adopt?
Matthew James Davis at 10:39am July 16
"Also, it is unrealistic to believe that it is possible to never ever make a foolish mistake - more than once! The way I see it is that you wouldn't be in pain if you in fact believed yourself to be good enough."
It -is- unrealistic to believe that. It is unethical to believe that the inevitibility of mistakes retracts your responsibility to avoid them. My pain is not derived from this belief, my comfort is.
The cause of my pain was being taken advantage of, being devalued for that which I hold to be good; my solace rests in the fact that I chose to value the wrong people because I wanted acceptance more than I wanted self-actualization. Which was a mistake. I am comforted to know that I am responsible to never make this mistake again, that I am not damned to repeat this foolish behavior over and over.
Matthew James Davis at 10:41am July 16
"All my sins forgiven yet still I sometimes find I won't forgive another - who's sins are just like mine."
Christ said to the whore in the temple "does anyone remain to condemn you? Then neither do I. Go and sin no longer." Forgiveness is not the failure to recognize a mistake as such. Forgiveness is the recognition of the ability to learn from it. Forgiveness is the failure to attribute a mistake to the character of a person as their inevitible self-definition. Forgiveness is reminding the person that they've made a mistake, and they never have to do it again.
"Go and sin no longer."
Beth Lewter at 7:03am July 15
so what i hear you saying is that you are trustworthy and the other person is not, and that you are righter / better than this emotionless, stupid, unethical, incapacitated individual. Elevating your worth above another. It seems to me that life isn't as much about choosing the trustworthy people as it is about accepting the fact that we are all imperfect and this hurts and learning to deal with this reality in a healthy way. Conversely, it has been my experience that those who want to put their trust in God above all else are the most vulnerable to misplaced trust in people ... there is something very wrong with that and I have yet to figure out why I do this over and over!! One of my favorite proverbs is "Trust no man - trust God only". We have no reasonable expectation that others will be trustworthy enough to save us from pain. :) Why is it that we aren't "happy" when we find out for certain another is not trustworthy it seems I may want to rejoice about knowing that!
Matthew James Davis at 7:25am July 15
It's very true. Because when we trust God, our trust is well placed. We begin to assume that all trust may be well placed. In my case, I thought I was placing my trust in someone who trusted God. That was my mistake.
As for the elevation comment, assuming that "all people are bad" is not the same as assuming "some people are worse than others." I argue the latter. But even so, I strive to be good. I strive to consider every decision, and believe that each one counts for something. I'm not as untrustworthy as some people, who attach no gravity to their decisions.
Beth Lewter at 10:14am July 15
:) I don't believe in Good people and bad people ... only people equal in value regardless of their decisions. People that make good choices and people that make bad choices. I agree it is unhealthy to view all people as bad people. I don't doubt for a minute that you conciously make wise choices and do in fact accomplish that ... and you will reap the benefits of that!
Matthew James Davis at 10:34am July 15
I don't believe anyone is precluded from good or bad decisions. But good people make good decisions constantly, and bad people make mad decisions constantly. It's a spectrum and I'm sure its normally distributed, and I know people can move up and down it at will.
But I don't meet people that do.
Laura Hartman at 10:53am July 15
Mind if I join the conversation? We are all born bad. Original sin and all that. We all can be forgiven because Jesus died for us, which means every bad person has the potential to become a righteous (good) person through Jesus Christ. BUT we all fight a spiritual war against our flesh and the world and the enemy, right? So every good person has the potential to really mess up and hurt others, behaving very badly. Enter forgiveness. If Jesus offers it to us, we must offer it to others, unconditionally. 70 x 7, right? Not just to Christians, not just to friends or family, not just to the deserving. How will the world ever know Jesus forgives if we as Christians do not forgive like He does?
I don't know who hurt you or how Matthew. But I'm praying that God will comfort you and bring you into a place of absolute forgiveness, because that, precious and valuable man, is also the place of absolute healing of the heart and spirit.
Matthew James Davis at 10:54am July 15
Thanks Laura. I'm just feeling crappy. But you're right, absent forgiveness I'll harbor resentment. Thanks for praying for me.
Beth Lewter at 2:03pm July 15
I'm uncertain as to which things are beyond my ability to change and which aren't. I'm a terribly inconsistent person ... does this make me unstable ... or changeable? If I apply your logic that one's position on the good / bad spectrum is determined "at will" I'd have to say I'm a bad person because I've made bad decisions over and over and over (the same ones more than once!)
Good / bad sounds an awful lot like right / wrong - why does it have to be about good and bad, right and wrong? Can't it be about .... relationship? How does good relate to bad between people? Or how does right relate to wrong between people? Acceptable or Unacceptable? For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. So if you are right (trustworthy) and she is wrong (untrustworthy) does that make you acceptable and her unacceptable? Are you mad at me yet?
Beth Lewter at 2:08pm July 15
The world can know forgiveness even if Christian's don't example it because GOD is powerful enough to do that all by himself and every individual has access to God.
Matthew James Davis at 4:15pm July 15
Not mad at you, I just find your logic, well...
"If I apply your logic that one's position on the good / bad spectrum is determined "at will" I'd have to say I'm a bad person because I've made bad decisions over and over and over (the same ones more than once!)"
Would you be mad at me if I agreed with that statement, in a broader sense? If you make terrible decisions over and over, and never learn from them, then yes, you're being a bad person. But you act like those decisions are an inevitibility. Thats the hallmark of a bad person, a lack of responsibility. Not a single action you take is inevitible. You're responsible for them. You determine your choices
"So if you are right (trustworthy) and she is wrong (untrustworthy) does that make you acceptable and her unacceptable?"
I don't like the word acceptable. I'd say ethical. And yes, If I make good decisions and she makes bad decisions, then I am by definition more ethical than she.
Beth Lewter at 6:31pm July 15
No need for me to be mad - you are not my judge (whew whee!) - God is and I am confident to stand before him right this very second. Ah yes ... responsibility ... so it is possible to be absolutely responsible? And, if one is more ethical than another that means the value of the life of that person is more or less? Would that mean that my salvation is contingent upon my own power to be responsbile? I think my salvation has been brought about by the power of Jesus Christ not my ability to be absoluetly responsible.
Matthew James Davis at 11:14pm July 15
"you are not my judge - God is"
Paul placed the responsibility of accountability on brothers and sisters in the faith.
"And, if one is more ethical than another that means the value of the life of that person is more or less?"
Value? To whom? I mean precisely that a person is more or less ethical than another. If you value being ethical, then you'll be more valuable to yourself if you're more ethical.
"Would that mean that my salvation is contingent upon my own power to be responsbile?"
Your salvation is contingent upon faith in Jesus Christ. Your faith is indicated by the gravity you attribute to your actions. Jesus didn't say "think about maybe taking up your cross weekly if you feel like it and heading in my general direction." He charged us with a responsibility. If you take your salvation seriously, you will take your responsibilities to it seriously.
Beth Lewter at 12:44am July 16
Thanks for the sermon Matthew .... I was raised by a preacher. I'm quite clear on Biblical theology taught by Christians. My intent was to encourage you, obviously it didn't go that way, so sorry. I was responding to your display of pain. Your statement that your only wrong was to trust the wrong person is a childish blame statement that ... Read Moresuggests you are in charge of ever being hurt by anyone by always making wise decisions. That simply is an untruth. Our "charge" to responsibility does not negate the number one thing, being loving. It simply isn't loving to publicize someone else's "wrong" as you did above - It is arrogant - a put down. Also, it is unrealistic to believe that it is possible to never ever make a foolish mistake - more than once! The way I see it is that you wouldn't be in pain if you in fact believed yourself to be good enough. All my sins forgiven yet still I sometimes find I won't forgive another - who's sins are just like mine.
Matthew James Davis at 10:34am July 16
"Your statement that your only wrong was to trust the wrong person is a childish blame statement that suggests you are in charge of ever being hurt by anyone by always making wise decisions. That simply is an untruth. Our "charge" to responsibility does not negate the number one thing, being loving."
These are not opposed, responsibility and love. One cannot negate the other.
"It simply isn't loving to publicize someone else's "wrong" as you did above - It is arrogant - a put down."
Validating someone elses mistake as "their choice" and "whatever makes them happy" seems to be the best alternative to calling it a mistake. Is that the loving attitutde I should adopt?
Matthew James Davis at 10:39am July 16
"Also, it is unrealistic to believe that it is possible to never ever make a foolish mistake - more than once! The way I see it is that you wouldn't be in pain if you in fact believed yourself to be good enough."
It -is- unrealistic to believe that. It is unethical to believe that the inevitibility of mistakes retracts your responsibility to avoid them. My pain is not derived from this belief, my comfort is.
The cause of my pain was being taken advantage of, being devalued for that which I hold to be good; my solace rests in the fact that I chose to value the wrong people because I wanted acceptance more than I wanted self-actualization. Which was a mistake. I am comforted to know that I am responsible to never make this mistake again, that I am not damned to repeat this foolish behavior over and over.
Matthew James Davis at 10:41am July 16
"All my sins forgiven yet still I sometimes find I won't forgive another - who's sins are just like mine."
Christ said to the whore in the temple "does anyone remain to condemn you? Then neither do I. Go and sin no longer." Forgiveness is not the failure to recognize a mistake as such. Forgiveness is the recognition of the ability to learn from it. Forgiveness is the failure to attribute a mistake to the character of a person as their inevitible self-definition. Forgiveness is reminding the person that they've made a mistake, and they never have to do it again.
"Go and sin no longer."