Chrissy, what you fail to realize is that we are NOT, I repeat NOT bombing civilian areas, so far all we've done is bomb sites that are confirmed centers for military intelligence in the areas. We are stratigically advanced enough to deliver bombs to military sites and only military sites. And don't try and bullshit me with things you "heard" I just watched about 5 hours of CNN and the word from the front lists no civilian casualties. NONE! So far there are 5 Iraqie leaders who are dead, and we sure as hell sent a message to Saddam that we aren't going to stand for him bullying people anymore. Do you even nkow what went on in Iraq before this? Torture and rape rooms in most military buildings around the state which were REGULARLY USED. Are we going to just sit back while the do that kind of stuff to innocents? What if you lived there? If you knew that at any moment you could be drug off, without any reason, to a military intallment to be raped, tortured, or worse- FOR NO REASON! I'm sorry, but I don't understand your reasoning for blaming this on Bush, I really don't.
john, I also just watched about an hour of CNN, and would like to say hey... you know why we are doing this? to scare saddham out, he's FUCKING MAD, he won't leave, therefore we will be forced to move forward. Saddham has the soldiers in city's and they are forcing the townspeople to stay so that they can use them as shields.... what do you think now john? i love you but last time dave and i sat down to debate you about politics you didn't have alot of reasons for what you believed, and i understand stubbornness.... believe me i'm stubborn, but try and relook things before you go accusing me of not knowing facts.... because last time i checked you believed in things just because of mere circumstance.
So we are to allow his use of a human shield to work?
At that point, it's either kill them or fail in the objective. And if we don't kill saddam, we'll be in this same position 12 years down the line AGAIN.
just cos he's a lunatic and a coward doesn't mean we should let him get away with whatever he wants.
We're not doing this to scare Saddam, right now we're doing this to get him out of Iraq, one way or another- we're no longer threatening him, we're taking action, that's different from simply attempting to scare someone. Yes he is "fucking mad" and that's why sooner or later one of his own people will see what he's doing and most likely kill him, especially if they see that we're coming and we won't stop till him and all who ally themselves with him are wither out of the country or dead. Hmmmm, let's see, forcing townspeople to be used as human shields, does that strike you as perhaps a reason to stop him before he takes more lives? Sure, I don't believe that we should kill innocents, but sometimes the greater good is overpowering. How many more innocents will die in that country if we don't take him out. I can tell you right now it's a hell of a lot more that will die as Human shields. The thing about using people as shields is that sooner or later one of them will snap and do some damage to his captors. I love you too Chrissy, and I don't recall this conversation with you and Dave that had me saying that the reasons I believe things are mostly circumstantial(in fact that offends me and makes me look like an unintelligent child.). I'm not just being stubborn this time, Chrissy- I'm not for war, but sometimes it's the only way.
but john... what you have to understand is the way that we are prepared to stop Saddham is by using mass weapons of destruction... bush believes its the only way... therefore Millions upon millions of these innocent people that are being used as shields will die....
The thing is, Chrissy- I don't see Bush using the weapons in a horribly destructive method. All he's done so far is use missles to take out sites that are confirmed military sites with weapons, and he's pretty much called and told them that he was going to do it beforehand so they could get out. It's just to take out the installations themselves, not the people, that's why there have not been that many deaths so far. That's why I said there have been no civilian casualties last time I checked, cuz there haven't. I see what your saying, and I understand your concern for the innocents, it's only human to be concerned for them. But the thing is they are making this as safe as possible for the people over there. The advancing armies from kuwait are being as safe as possible, in order to give Iraquie troops time to either surrender or fall back, which alot of them are doing. They realize that they are part of a sinking ship, and the more that realize that the more surrender. I know what your saying, and I respect that, but my original argument was that there is no reason to blame this on Bush, there were alot of factors he couldn't ignore anymore and there is no reason to throw stones right now.
thats what you hear john... but can you trust your sources? they always cover things up... they have in every american war for the benefit of charisma...
with the patriot act you too, a US citizen, can be drug off, without being told why, to some millitary facility and refused the counsel of a lawyer. ohh and if you are really lucky you can be passed off to egypt where they have no qualms about tourturing you
Hmmm, I sincerly doubt that. But anyway the likliness of it happening to me versus the likliness of it happening to an Iraquie are drastically different. Considering that there are men in the military there whose sole job is to torture random people, and that Saddam's oldest son's favorite pasttime is raping innocent girls. Your comparing a mountain to a molehill here. But then maybe I'm just dumb.
And don't try and bullshit me with things you "heard" I just watched about 5 hours of CNN and the word from the front lists no civilian casualties. NONE!
So far there are 5 Iraqie leaders who are dead, and we sure as hell sent a message to Saddam that we aren't going to stand for him bullying people anymore.
Do you even nkow what went on in Iraq before this? Torture and rape rooms in most military buildings around the state which were REGULARLY USED. Are we going to just sit back while the do that kind of stuff to innocents?
What if you lived there? If you knew that at any moment you could be drug off, without any reason, to a military intallment to be raped, tortured, or worse- FOR NO REASON!
I'm sorry, but I don't understand your reasoning for blaming this on Bush, I really don't.
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Bush is evil. Didn't you know that? Everybody knows that. Seriously, look around you. Doesn't that stop sign make you feel that Bush is evil?
Heh.
I like to spot propaganda for fun.
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At that point, it's either kill them or fail in the objective. And if we don't kill saddam, we'll be in this same position 12 years down the line AGAIN.
just cos he's a lunatic and a coward doesn't mean we should let him get away with whatever he wants.
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I guess it just goes to show..
"If I have to explain it, you'll never understand."
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Yes he is "fucking mad" and that's why sooner or later one of his own people will see what he's doing and most likely kill him, especially if they see that we're coming and we won't stop till him and all who ally themselves with him are wither out of the country or dead.
Hmmmm, let's see, forcing townspeople to be used as human shields, does that strike you as perhaps a reason to stop him before he takes more lives? Sure, I don't believe that we should kill innocents, but sometimes the greater good is overpowering. How many more innocents will die in that country if we don't take him out. I can tell you right now it's a hell of a lot more that will die as Human shields. The thing about using people as shields is that sooner or later one of them will snap and do some damage to his captors.
I love you too Chrissy, and I don't recall this conversation with you and Dave that had me saying that the reasons I believe things are mostly circumstantial(in fact that offends me and makes me look like an unintelligent child.). I'm not just being stubborn this time, Chrissy- I'm not for war, but sometimes it's the only way.
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That's why I said there have been no civilian casualties last time I checked, cuz there haven't.
I see what your saying, and I understand your concern for the innocents, it's only human to be concerned for them. But the thing is they are making this as safe as possible for the people over there. The advancing armies from kuwait are being as safe as possible, in order to give Iraquie troops time to either surrender or fall back, which alot of them are doing. They realize that they are part of a sinking ship, and the more that realize that the more surrender.
I know what your saying, and I respect that, but my original argument was that there is no reason to blame this on Bush, there were alot of factors he couldn't ignore anymore and there is no reason to throw stones right now.
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But anyway the likliness of it happening to me versus the likliness of it happening to an Iraquie are drastically different. Considering that there are men in the military there whose sole job is to torture random people, and that Saddam's oldest son's favorite pasttime is raping innocent girls.
Your comparing a mountain to a molehill here.
But then maybe I'm just dumb.
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