You say DEM I say Surprise
This is a response to a fair exasperation to thecakewasalie, another Zutaraian refuge center that when forced to do something but bash and hate the creators, opposing, fans, and etc has little of substance and has a community mandate everyone being free to rant without criticism...and then only vents about "sexism" (Katara being domestically abused by Aang/thecreators), Garystus (Aang and Bryke, again,), Mai sucking (so its sexism when Katara is knaved into a relationship with Aang but not when Mai is bitched at for having her personality and reduced to spoiled rich girl), and horrible writing (read Zutara not happening). I'm all for venting. I've made venting threads, myself.
But after the initial transgression I want to learn and at least deconstruct something from top to bottom even my own viewpoint. If you're not careful you'll end up being like those guys who are so scared of "tokenism" they forbid any deviance from straight white males in comics. Or hate misogyny and "moe bullshit" that fear Cmdr Shepard wearing heels to a formal gala/engagement as she chooses.
Watchmen holds up because its not just smashing the silliness of superheroes but deconstructs the mentality as to what makes them and what they'd be like and what they would face and how dangerous and ill equipped a mindset that is. Namely what happens if you don't have people who only exist to get pummeled, they reflect the human complexities beyond crisis fighting or bleached and stark judgement followed by execution. How they are reacted to and what part do they play in society as whole. What if the common conceits and protections are off, what would happen. Admittedly any story follows the directors of its tellers and is geared to an audience. But while there is some transgressiveness there doesn't seem to be a malicious intent and it honestly works for NOT having just two sides (a very relevant point) or one voice that is one to one (Section III Line 10) with all wisdom. The point isn't The Bad Guys win. Its that 'you can't pummel or bamboozle, nuclear crisis, social upheaval, moral decay, sexuality, technological shock, and society's problems like some greater than plebian man who answers to no censure but his pure conscience. Too bad we keep doing that anyway and watch as slightest niggles undo our orthodoxy and egotism"
This is why, I've learned, I don't like Embers the destruction as to analysis, the condescension, the opinions and etc disguised as clarity, but I REALLY hate the people who parrot it. That and I don't need yet another how I'm smarter than my Sunday School lesson rebellion (no you're not you just missed the point as brick to the house of you). And its why I feel the community as a whole is disturbing, creating an echo chamber and then pretending you've made viewing room or even a place of freedom makes me unhappy with the Internet and its delusions. But there does seem to be something besides the usual haters on their hate wanting to feel valid. First the most recent topic of of this posting. And this one.
This question came about as a result of a mini-convo with dietotaku at Capslock Zutara...
Personally, I think the Lionturtle development is one of the worst examples of WTF storytelling ever (because one of the rules of good writing is that you never, EVER introduce a character or concept in the last chapter and expect it to not seem completely coincidental), but there are apparently claims that the LionTurtle and energybending concepts were introduced at some point before the finale.
Anybody care to help me dig for this foreshadowing? Know any episodes? Quotes?
Dunno why I made that bold. Eh, it's late. :D
I consider that some honest venting, Katelyn. I don't know whether you'll agree with me or be convinced, but I can really respect where you're coming from. You're at a limit and exasperated but asking for, inviting some help and understanding. In the damned echo chamber but still. I think its great question and sets a great mood. You should be rewarded in your spirit of unification and personal frustration followed by a want to analyze. It is FUN to consider. You disagree, but ya know you want to at least understand these other thoughts and you aren't insulting about the people in the concept just the concept.
Now ultimately I disagree as I don't think the Lion Turtle is the most egregrious (as to bending is powered by moon and sun that is accepted due to sheer grandfathering in and mainly this crowded for the juicy dualistic symbolism this still doesn't cover Toph overcoming Earthbending's greatest weakness with sheer determination being cheered and energybending as I'll point out setup getting out everyone's yellow eye evil face ) and is the best example of them applying what they've learned to the story. ITs a revelation, as at first I really disliked it and then went back and went all ... oh OH OH I get it now.
Its sudden surprise, true, much like anything related to Seige of the North and Yue or any Season Finale of Avatar but this condemned the sort of understood narrative in our heads and what we wanted/expected (especially raised on the diet of anime). It isn't totally out of left field though, especially considering Firebending Masters and Zuko's spiritual sickness. But it terms of setup its better if you go back some. Its established Aang and certain people have spiritual powers and that this is a world where that matters. Burn a forest and forest spirit rampages. Moreover spiritual powers matter and its not just feel good philosophy to direct yourself (this is why Ozai who is thoroughly devote in his belief to the point the world is an intrusion and Azula who believes in power, fail so much)
The means that Fang communicates with Aang is used by Aang to communicate with HeiBei. After that Aang channels massive power with the Ocean spirit (being the only waterbender when the moon is slain), he does something with the Banyan Tree that lets him see through it, receives visions, and then the real kicker is Guru Pathik. When he does that emotionally thing with Appa that allows him to more or less cure his growing loss of self. Afterwards he does something manipulating Appa's energy because "the two of your energies are mixed" bending/manipulating it so Appa can find Aang though they don't know where each other is (and before this Appa and Aang share the same dream). Ty Lee herself even helps establishing this as she can touch someone leaving no damage and not even paralyze them but disable their bending (Return to Omashu)
Firebending Masters helps establish the importance of spirit in bending as not just superstition but something with exact and temporal effects. Zuko is able to Firebend the previous episode and Aang prior. But simply acheiving a goal and changing mindset has snuffed his power to near nothing. After dancing and working in harmony they feel renewed purpose and energy and come to a greater understanding of bending and themselves and their powers grow immensely. This even ties into previously established matter of bending lightning requiring awareness of energy about them and emotional stillness to separate the energy and vent the distortion out leaving no distortion left.
The Lion Turtle then teaches Aang an esoteric (pure, no matter) version of something like this, demonstrates it, and then Aang connects with Ozai using the same means as with Heibei or Pathik did with Appa. Only instead of bending the energy to unify he seperates and channels it while remaining firm able to whether the illusion (world) to reach past something to grab something and separate it. This even relates to the Chakras and Jins (establishing the greater philosophy of energy as something within you that takes certain forms and has certain effects). Effectively Aang discovered (well was taught really) a form of bending that utilized his channeling ability and combined it with the energy dedication/manipulation for a greater effect than Ty Lee imitating condition in Firebending Masters (you can lose bending and an outside source can establish/restore it). Note Aang's been growing spirit powers from the beginning of which the Avatar State was merely the most particular and was a "mechanism" made of channelling and manipulating energy. Instead of concentrating all the energy in him he flushed just the right kind OUT of Ozai.
So yes it is there. And it is a surprise. And the Lionturtle is a deus ex machina but it was foreshadowed and set up as important and even the events of the encounter (it even follows rule of three, first Toph-Badger Moles, second Zuko/Aang- Dragons, last the lionturtle. Fourth if you count the legend of the first waterbender, fifth the dragon dance) and what can happen are established. It is however a sudden shock that it is happening. Not every surprise in the narrative is a sign of flaws and failure though yes I can understand wanting more personal effort and the victory the sole result of Aang's actions. I even asked for it. I'm annoyed that by plot fiat Aang lost the Avatar State, took no action to reclaim it in the specific, and then simply regained it. That struck me as more discrediting to the narrative (along with Zuko's Redemption Now With Less Time on the Clock Just Because). Day of Black Sun fails because the magical plot device superpower was taken off and Day of the Comet succeeds as it is restored.
While I'm not hot on Aang must give up Katara for superpower (first it didn't work that way, hell if all arguments for aang to "sacrifice" and "grow-up" deny it) it would be an action of his and a sign of his own character resulting in acceptable trade off. Only it seems.. well excessive. He already did that, it failed. So it would end up being just as arbitrary to do it again, if the point is Aang detaching himself for enlightenment thus allowed to use great power, to succeed. Now if the point is that Aang must give up on Katara so his romance with her is not there anymore, because it is disliked or judged as bad, that is another matter. In which case it makes sense the whole "Aang is keep Katara against her will and controlling her and forcing her" narrative some buy into persists. All he had to do was tell her about the Avatar State and she would leave him or choose it and he'd leave her. I mean its not like he could choose it, regret it, and then want her back. With this crew I strongly suspect he'd be condemned just as contrarily for daring to give her up meaning he doesn't truly love her and thus not deserving of Katara. As such its more not likely the relationship.
Now some really are disturbed by it. They see squicky twelve year old macking on someone who doesn't even love him back. Fair enough and agreed. I am not Mai's and Zuko's relationship biggest fan and would want to alter things some before accepting it as interesting. Let alone good and health. Others just as rightly not interested. I'm disappointed but I know the feeling. Particularly as the good well written Kataang is thin and most is too defensive (there is even less friction and emotional interaction as to bland fluff to combat Zutaran assault or from much younger less ... able writers). so I wish I could show what they are missing but they aren't. Moreover they are just as entitled but I'm sad though I suppose like being invested in, say, the N64. Overall yeah it was a screw up but it had some nice peices. I'll defend the Gamecube though its main issue just seemed to be a lack of software/3rd part support crippling kiddie identity. This, more than anything, is why Nintendo fanboys are such assholes about Wii success we were out ofthe ghetto and telling everyone else how to act. Still I three way tie seems fun though the honeymoon is long over and the PS3 is totally proving the better LT console that's affordable now. I guess I'll just hope for Tenzin being Kataang's Wii. Not that there isn't a guarantee he won't be a villain or badguy.
But mainly I want to point this out. Energybending isn't the asspull of the finale. The Avatar State's return by rockpoke that was there all along is. (its even is near the tailbone) Moreover I wish people took this same critical eye to Zuko's redemption and even Katara's liking him (and goddamn stop making it seem Zuko's enabling of revenge and murder as bribe was good and empathetic and adult and ethical and etc while in the same breath condemning Aang for the death of Fire Nation rank-and-file and opposing its as self righteous and vulgar)
I'd say the biggest issue is people aren't upset about the things they claim. And the problems that do exist are blown waaaay out of proportion for maybe they took as more real than reality. As such we've been stalled in exploring everything in order to fight off or concede points or take as a given the proposals of people who take Zuko as the central character and Katara as his destiny. This more than anything with the Avatar fandom flooded with shipping fics is why Embers rides so high. Its one of the few that dares and has sliver of the background and technical execution to try to be a decent general fiction. And I'll give it this its managing to illustrate what's wrong with all the damned Zuko love by arguing for it so viciously. I do hope something else steps up. But if I can make it I'll see Zutara ground to powder by sheer contuinity drift. Just as moon powers waterbending will become utterly accepted soon so with Tenzin. And with that the relationship of Aang and Katara and soon they'll be relegated to the people who cared about Little Women or Ranma and Akane (relics, irrelevant) for the new thing.
I have not love for the spirit of Zutara only bitterest hate because it pops up so much without need.
But after the initial transgression I want to learn and at least deconstruct something from top to bottom even my own viewpoint. If you're not careful you'll end up being like those guys who are so scared of "tokenism" they forbid any deviance from straight white males in comics. Or hate misogyny and "moe bullshit" that fear Cmdr Shepard wearing heels to a formal gala/engagement as she chooses.
Watchmen holds up because its not just smashing the silliness of superheroes but deconstructs the mentality as to what makes them and what they'd be like and what they would face and how dangerous and ill equipped a mindset that is. Namely what happens if you don't have people who only exist to get pummeled, they reflect the human complexities beyond crisis fighting or bleached and stark judgement followed by execution. How they are reacted to and what part do they play in society as whole. What if the common conceits and protections are off, what would happen. Admittedly any story follows the directors of its tellers and is geared to an audience. But while there is some transgressiveness there doesn't seem to be a malicious intent and it honestly works for NOT having just two sides (a very relevant point) or one voice that is one to one (Section III Line 10) with all wisdom. The point isn't The Bad Guys win. Its that 'you can't pummel or bamboozle, nuclear crisis, social upheaval, moral decay, sexuality, technological shock, and society's problems like some greater than plebian man who answers to no censure but his pure conscience. Too bad we keep doing that anyway and watch as slightest niggles undo our orthodoxy and egotism"
This is why, I've learned, I don't like Embers the destruction as to analysis, the condescension, the opinions and etc disguised as clarity, but I REALLY hate the people who parrot it. That and I don't need yet another how I'm smarter than my Sunday School lesson rebellion (no you're not you just missed the point as brick to the house of you). And its why I feel the community as a whole is disturbing, creating an echo chamber and then pretending you've made viewing room or even a place of freedom makes me unhappy with the Internet and its delusions. But there does seem to be something besides the usual haters on their hate wanting to feel valid. First the most recent topic of of this posting. And this one.
This question came about as a result of a mini-convo with dietotaku at Capslock Zutara...
Personally, I think the Lionturtle development is one of the worst examples of WTF storytelling ever (because one of the rules of good writing is that you never, EVER introduce a character or concept in the last chapter and expect it to not seem completely coincidental), but there are apparently claims that the LionTurtle and energybending concepts were introduced at some point before the finale.
Anybody care to help me dig for this foreshadowing? Know any episodes? Quotes?
Dunno why I made that bold. Eh, it's late. :D
I consider that some honest venting, Katelyn. I don't know whether you'll agree with me or be convinced, but I can really respect where you're coming from. You're at a limit and exasperated but asking for, inviting some help and understanding. In the damned echo chamber but still. I think its great question and sets a great mood. You should be rewarded in your spirit of unification and personal frustration followed by a want to analyze. It is FUN to consider. You disagree, but ya know you want to at least understand these other thoughts and you aren't insulting about the people in the concept just the concept.
Now ultimately I disagree as I don't think the Lion Turtle is the most egregrious (as to bending is powered by moon and sun that is accepted due to sheer grandfathering in and mainly this crowded for the juicy dualistic symbolism this still doesn't cover Toph overcoming Earthbending's greatest weakness with sheer determination being cheered and energybending as I'll point out setup getting out everyone's yellow eye evil face ) and is the best example of them applying what they've learned to the story. ITs a revelation, as at first I really disliked it and then went back and went all ... oh OH OH I get it now.
Its sudden surprise, true, much like anything related to Seige of the North and Yue or any Season Finale of Avatar but this condemned the sort of understood narrative in our heads and what we wanted/expected (especially raised on the diet of anime). It isn't totally out of left field though, especially considering Firebending Masters and Zuko's spiritual sickness. But it terms of setup its better if you go back some. Its established Aang and certain people have spiritual powers and that this is a world where that matters. Burn a forest and forest spirit rampages. Moreover spiritual powers matter and its not just feel good philosophy to direct yourself (this is why Ozai who is thoroughly devote in his belief to the point the world is an intrusion and Azula who believes in power, fail so much)
The means that Fang communicates with Aang is used by Aang to communicate with HeiBei. After that Aang channels massive power with the Ocean spirit (being the only waterbender when the moon is slain), he does something with the Banyan Tree that lets him see through it, receives visions, and then the real kicker is Guru Pathik. When he does that emotionally thing with Appa that allows him to more or less cure his growing loss of self. Afterwards he does something manipulating Appa's energy because "the two of your energies are mixed" bending/manipulating it so Appa can find Aang though they don't know where each other is (and before this Appa and Aang share the same dream). Ty Lee herself even helps establishing this as she can touch someone leaving no damage and not even paralyze them but disable their bending (Return to Omashu)
Firebending Masters helps establish the importance of spirit in bending as not just superstition but something with exact and temporal effects. Zuko is able to Firebend the previous episode and Aang prior. But simply acheiving a goal and changing mindset has snuffed his power to near nothing. After dancing and working in harmony they feel renewed purpose and energy and come to a greater understanding of bending and themselves and their powers grow immensely. This even ties into previously established matter of bending lightning requiring awareness of energy about them and emotional stillness to separate the energy and vent the distortion out leaving no distortion left.
The Lion Turtle then teaches Aang an esoteric (pure, no matter) version of something like this, demonstrates it, and then Aang connects with Ozai using the same means as with Heibei or Pathik did with Appa. Only instead of bending the energy to unify he seperates and channels it while remaining firm able to whether the illusion (world) to reach past something to grab something and separate it. This even relates to the Chakras and Jins (establishing the greater philosophy of energy as something within you that takes certain forms and has certain effects). Effectively Aang discovered (well was taught really) a form of bending that utilized his channeling ability and combined it with the energy dedication/manipulation for a greater effect than Ty Lee imitating condition in Firebending Masters (you can lose bending and an outside source can establish/restore it). Note Aang's been growing spirit powers from the beginning of which the Avatar State was merely the most particular and was a "mechanism" made of channelling and manipulating energy. Instead of concentrating all the energy in him he flushed just the right kind OUT of Ozai.
So yes it is there. And it is a surprise. And the Lionturtle is a deus ex machina but it was foreshadowed and set up as important and even the events of the encounter (it even follows rule of three, first Toph-Badger Moles, second Zuko/Aang- Dragons, last the lionturtle. Fourth if you count the legend of the first waterbender, fifth the dragon dance) and what can happen are established. It is however a sudden shock that it is happening. Not every surprise in the narrative is a sign of flaws and failure though yes I can understand wanting more personal effort and the victory the sole result of Aang's actions. I even asked for it. I'm annoyed that by plot fiat Aang lost the Avatar State, took no action to reclaim it in the specific, and then simply regained it. That struck me as more discrediting to the narrative (along with Zuko's Redemption Now With Less Time on the Clock Just Because). Day of Black Sun fails because the magical plot device superpower was taken off and Day of the Comet succeeds as it is restored.
While I'm not hot on Aang must give up Katara for superpower (first it didn't work that way, hell if all arguments for aang to "sacrifice" and "grow-up" deny it) it would be an action of his and a sign of his own character resulting in acceptable trade off. Only it seems.. well excessive. He already did that, it failed. So it would end up being just as arbitrary to do it again, if the point is Aang detaching himself for enlightenment thus allowed to use great power, to succeed. Now if the point is that Aang must give up on Katara so his romance with her is not there anymore, because it is disliked or judged as bad, that is another matter. In which case it makes sense the whole "Aang is keep Katara against her will and controlling her and forcing her" narrative some buy into persists. All he had to do was tell her about the Avatar State and she would leave him or choose it and he'd leave her. I mean its not like he could choose it, regret it, and then want her back. With this crew I strongly suspect he'd be condemned just as contrarily for daring to give her up meaning he doesn't truly love her and thus not deserving of Katara. As such its more not likely the relationship.
Now some really are disturbed by it. They see squicky twelve year old macking on someone who doesn't even love him back. Fair enough and agreed. I am not Mai's and Zuko's relationship biggest fan and would want to alter things some before accepting it as interesting. Let alone good and health. Others just as rightly not interested. I'm disappointed but I know the feeling. Particularly as the good well written Kataang is thin and most is too defensive (there is even less friction and emotional interaction as to bland fluff to combat Zutaran assault or from much younger less ... able writers). so I wish I could show what they are missing but they aren't. Moreover they are just as entitled but I'm sad though I suppose like being invested in, say, the N64. Overall yeah it was a screw up but it had some nice peices. I'll defend the Gamecube though its main issue just seemed to be a lack of software/3rd part support crippling kiddie identity. This, more than anything, is why Nintendo fanboys are such assholes about Wii success we were out ofthe ghetto and telling everyone else how to act. Still I three way tie seems fun though the honeymoon is long over and the PS3 is totally proving the better LT console that's affordable now. I guess I'll just hope for Tenzin being Kataang's Wii. Not that there isn't a guarantee he won't be a villain or badguy.
But mainly I want to point this out. Energybending isn't the asspull of the finale. The Avatar State's return by rockpoke that was there all along is. (its even is near the tailbone) Moreover I wish people took this same critical eye to Zuko's redemption and even Katara's liking him (and goddamn stop making it seem Zuko's enabling of revenge and murder as bribe was good and empathetic and adult and ethical and etc while in the same breath condemning Aang for the death of Fire Nation rank-and-file and opposing its as self righteous and vulgar)
I'd say the biggest issue is people aren't upset about the things they claim. And the problems that do exist are blown waaaay out of proportion for maybe they took as more real than reality. As such we've been stalled in exploring everything in order to fight off or concede points or take as a given the proposals of people who take Zuko as the central character and Katara as his destiny. This more than anything with the Avatar fandom flooded with shipping fics is why Embers rides so high. Its one of the few that dares and has sliver of the background and technical execution to try to be a decent general fiction. And I'll give it this its managing to illustrate what's wrong with all the damned Zuko love by arguing for it so viciously. I do hope something else steps up. But if I can make it I'll see Zutara ground to powder by sheer contuinity drift. Just as moon powers waterbending will become utterly accepted soon so with Tenzin. And with that the relationship of Aang and Katara and soon they'll be relegated to the people who cared about Little Women or Ranma and Akane (relics, irrelevant) for the new thing.
I have not love for the spirit of Zutara only bitterest hate because it pops up so much without need.