Себе на память, и кому это может быть интересно.
Полная расшифровка "диалога" между Ивлевым и Шуваловым на форуме в Чикаго, через 2 дня после смерти Василия Алексаняна, 5-го октября 2011 года.
P. Ivlev. Иgor, I’m glad to see you here. The question I want to ask you will be perhaps a little bit more personal than this audience normally allows. Sad news came today that our friend Vasily Aleksanyan died. You know who he was, what he did and why he died. My question is what you personally are going to do as the Prime Minister of our country, to fight pandemic corruption, which has spread over our country, and as a very good lawyer, as I know a much better lawyer than some other members of the government, what are you going to do to create really independent courts in Russia?
I. Chuvalov. That’s a very precise agenda for the presidency of Mr. Medvedev. He is a lawyer as well and he repeatedly insisted that we need to create a judicial system which will protect people from crime and so on. It’s not easy to do because, once the corruption started enhancing, the first source of corruption was within the courts, as you know, arbitration courts. When capitalism started boosting, the first money that got into the legal system, unfortunately, I have to admit, went to courts.
We have a certain plan but I don’t think that we could do what they do in China. They shoot approximately five thousand people annually, maybe I’m wrong, but that doesn’t help. So we need to find another remedy. We need to provide more transparency for people in office, just like myself. We need to publish everything about our incomes and about our assets and I think it’ll become deeper and deeper every year, so the whole system will be stricter for the officials. But it should relate not only to federal officials because, for me, it’s not difficult to publish all this.
I will be criticized but I don’t care because it’s all legal. But we need to have the whole system, from top to municipal authorities where people become completely transparent. What relates to Vasily Aleksanyan, Pavel and I started together at the Moscow State University, at the Faculty of Law, and we had another friend, who worked for Yukos. Yesterday, when I was watching TV, I learnt that Vasily Aleksanyan died of AIDS or something. He was the company’s chief lawyer. It’s sad that he died, but the Yukos case was discussed many times in the mass media in different forms. That’s not a clean company. It was chosen to start with. Anybody could have been chosen.
The reaction was that it was a politically motivated case. I’m not a politician and I don’t want to be involved in this. But it’s obvious and it’s proven even in the EU courts that they broke the law and that they didn’t pay taxes. Full stop. Whether it was politically motivated or not - I don’t know. But now that we have the European Court’s ruling that says they didn’t pay taxes. And I don’t think it has something to do with corruption, because Yukos people are very much corrupt and I know that for sure because I had those people in my office, saying you will never be able to pass a bill in the State Duma if you don’t do this or that. I have a friend, who was the Chairman of the Presidential Administration, who had Yukos people saying that they wouldn’t be able to dismiss the Prosecutor General if they didn’t do a certain thing. They were blackmailing people and that’s well-known.
People here, in the west, don’t want to notice it because it’s a very attractive argument to criticize Russia, saying it was politically a motivated case. So, they are not clean. They were very, very aggressive. They controlled the Parliament. Maybe it was very painful but what Putin did he said no oligarchs, no businessmen in the administration or the government. If you have some capital you should decide for yourself: whether you carry on with your business or you do your governmental job. So, I think it was not a perfect picture. It wasn’t very pleasant but it was far better for my country. You asked me where we are now in terms of the WTO accession.
Again, with the leadership of the American administration, we completed a very difficult task in Geneva - we had Americans working with our delegation 24 hours a day in order to persuade other WTO members that Russia should get membership before the end of the year. At the beginning of this year very few people believed that it’s possible. Now we are very close to that. Unfortunately, we have a few minor issues, which don’t relate to our cooperation with Americans but involve a third party. I wouldn’t like to discuss this publicly. But we work together. Again, I believe it will be for mutual benefit and I hope that, with the help of the American business community, the Jackson-Vanik amendment will be abolished. It will be the last sign of the Cold War, which will be dismissed. Thank you.
Отсюда.
Вот так вот. Я ж говорила - "убитые, как это нужно было..."
P. Ivlev. Иgor, I’m glad to see you here. The question I want to ask you will be perhaps a little bit more personal than this audience normally allows. Sad news came today that our friend Vasily Aleksanyan died. You know who he was, what he did and why he died. My question is what you personally are going to do as the Prime Minister of our country, to fight pandemic corruption, which has spread over our country, and as a very good lawyer, as I know a much better lawyer than some other members of the government, what are you going to do to create really independent courts in Russia?
I. Chuvalov. That’s a very precise agenda for the presidency of Mr. Medvedev. He is a lawyer as well and he repeatedly insisted that we need to create a judicial system which will protect people from crime and so on. It’s not easy to do because, once the corruption started enhancing, the first source of corruption was within the courts, as you know, arbitration courts. When capitalism started boosting, the first money that got into the legal system, unfortunately, I have to admit, went to courts.
We have a certain plan but I don’t think that we could do what they do in China. They shoot approximately five thousand people annually, maybe I’m wrong, but that doesn’t help. So we need to find another remedy. We need to provide more transparency for people in office, just like myself. We need to publish everything about our incomes and about our assets and I think it’ll become deeper and deeper every year, so the whole system will be stricter for the officials. But it should relate not only to federal officials because, for me, it’s not difficult to publish all this.
I will be criticized but I don’t care because it’s all legal. But we need to have the whole system, from top to municipal authorities where people become completely transparent. What relates to Vasily Aleksanyan, Pavel and I started together at the Moscow State University, at the Faculty of Law, and we had another friend, who worked for Yukos. Yesterday, when I was watching TV, I learnt that Vasily Aleksanyan died of AIDS or something. He was the company’s chief lawyer. It’s sad that he died, but the Yukos case was discussed many times in the mass media in different forms. That’s not a clean company. It was chosen to start with. Anybody could have been chosen.
The reaction was that it was a politically motivated case. I’m not a politician and I don’t want to be involved in this. But it’s obvious and it’s proven even in the EU courts that they broke the law and that they didn’t pay taxes. Full stop. Whether it was politically motivated or not - I don’t know. But now that we have the European Court’s ruling that says they didn’t pay taxes. And I don’t think it has something to do with corruption, because Yukos people are very much corrupt and I know that for sure because I had those people in my office, saying you will never be able to pass a bill in the State Duma if you don’t do this or that. I have a friend, who was the Chairman of the Presidential Administration, who had Yukos people saying that they wouldn’t be able to dismiss the Prosecutor General if they didn’t do a certain thing. They were blackmailing people and that’s well-known.
People here, in the west, don’t want to notice it because it’s a very attractive argument to criticize Russia, saying it was politically a motivated case. So, they are not clean. They were very, very aggressive. They controlled the Parliament. Maybe it was very painful but what Putin did he said no oligarchs, no businessmen in the administration or the government. If you have some capital you should decide for yourself: whether you carry on with your business or you do your governmental job. So, I think it was not a perfect picture. It wasn’t very pleasant but it was far better for my country. You asked me where we are now in terms of the WTO accession.
Again, with the leadership of the American administration, we completed a very difficult task in Geneva - we had Americans working with our delegation 24 hours a day in order to persuade other WTO members that Russia should get membership before the end of the year. At the beginning of this year very few people believed that it’s possible. Now we are very close to that. Unfortunately, we have a few minor issues, which don’t relate to our cooperation with Americans but involve a third party. I wouldn’t like to discuss this publicly. But we work together. Again, I believe it will be for mutual benefit and I hope that, with the help of the American business community, the Jackson-Vanik amendment will be abolished. It will be the last sign of the Cold War, which will be dismissed. Thank you.
Отсюда.
Вот так вот. Я ж говорила - "убитые, как это нужно было..."