Precisely. You know, to my own huge surprise (surprise because it really goes against the grain of my neurotic personality), we manage not to participate in this arms race, for philosophical reasons. I held Yashka back from an extra math acceleration when he was in fifth grade, because it meant getting up 1.5 hours earlier and catching the middle school bus. Then, when he said he did not want to test for a special G&T middle school because he was not sure he liked math and technology enough to specialize in them, we saw his point and did not push. I like the summer to be for running around, so we are going to the Poconos instead of doing "smart" camps. And so forth.
And with Eva, we don't teach her any reading / numbers / etc. stuff. I mean, we count floors as we go up the elevator and point out letters in her books, but we have no flashcards and "instructional time," the way I did with Yashka when he was three. She goes to a preschool that allows lots of traditional play, plus daily music and art, with no focus on things like sorting sticks. At home, she mainly plays with princess dolls. ;)
Have you read about the "Rutgers solution"? The authors of the article meant it tongue-in-cheek, but I am a total believer. The funny thing is, my most successful (at least, by traditional standards) female friend went to Rutgers for undergrad. She is now Partner in a radiology practice. And if we talk about a different kind of success, I have a friend who got her BS in comp sci from some Hawaiian university, then got PhD at Columbia and became a Harvard professor. Another person we both used to know went to Bklyn College with me and is now a professor at Princeton.
Screw the arms race. (On the plus side, my kids love books and Yashka reads a ton and hit the ceiling at 12th grade vocab level on his school test this year, we don't watch TV, go places a lot, etc.).
Спасибо за наводку (Rutgers solution), я это пропустила.
I am not sure whether I agree or disagree. On one hand, yeah, we all know people who were Ivy League material, but did not go to an Ivy League school and are doing fine. On the other hand, this may be because they were hired/ recruited by people who themselves were in that situation. As these cases become more rare, most workplaces will turn out like certain companies who don't interview people unless they come from a specific list of schools. (Remind me to tell you a story about Columbia act. Science). Also, when we graduated, we did not have so much competition from the Asians. I was interviewing recently - there are practically no non-asians applying. Or non-asians with comparable credentials.
Hm. Doesn't what you wrote here run counter to what you were saying on the phone yesterday? Your interviewing story does make me nervous. I mean, we are basing our judgments on the world we know, and the world is changing. But the alternative is so unattractive. I see Asian competition in Yashka's school. Yashka has a school friend who is a wonderful boy, but he's never in his life been to a birthday party. He seems to be taking it in stride, no visible scars, he is polite and funny, but there is no way I can do this to my kids, which means they already lost that particular race. May as well relax and enjoy the ride. :)
Let's have another phone conversation this week, there is too much to write. :)
M: This is one (arguably, major) reason for us not to move back to NY. A: I remember years ago, me being totally and completely estranged to the idea of kids, you were explaining to me about something that could prevent Yashka from getting to Harvard. I asked, bewildered, whether UPenn will do and you gave me that look... :)))
This is one of the big reasons for our reluctance to move back to NY as well. Though since we are more tied to NY than you are, we will probably end up in that area in time for Yashka's high school (two years, can you believe it?). With regard to Harvard, did I really, really say that? My young self embarrasses me now. :) Btw, you are on my list of people whose life and work serve as evidence that I am right in thinking that the relationship between college name and success is often tenuous at best. I mean in it as a compliment.
Alkin, my Mon and the rest of the family are in NY, my best friends is in NY, my long-terms friends are, my office of so many years... I am very tied to NY but we think the life is easier for us and for Aliska here, in SF. So we'll probably stay put here for a while. ~ Well, clearly, there is a strong connection between University's quality and, yes, name and where the degree you get from that school can take you and what the program gives you. While at NYU, I thought that CS program was not as good as tuition/name suggested but meeting graduates from lesser known schools at work, I changed that opinion. Then again, Lena B is now a professor at Princeton, publishing books, and all that. Her choosing Berkeley as grad school program (rated #1) vs Harvard (#2) went a long way for her. Same, when she was choosing undergrad in NY, she went for school without a big name but the one that she believed had the best program in Classics.
I meant your Mexican tours, not your CS job. Such is the irony of life: you race to get to the best college / grad program / etc., and then at some point you realize that you want to operate a small, funky tour firm, or be a goat farmer in the Appalachia (we know someone who used to be a school principal, and then quit that and is now running an organic farm with her husband). Some people do have straight paths, and in academia having the right PhD advisor takes you far, if you decide to stay there. Then again, we have another close friend with Princeton / Harvard background, who happened to realize that she does not want to be a tenured professor, but wants to be a practicing therapist. To her, her Princeton PhD has different kind of value than Lena B's PhD has to Lena. And so forth. All I am saying is, as I can't be 100% sure that my kids will capitalize on getting to the most prestigious college I can prep them for and won't have a change of heart / mind / career at 25-30-40, I can't justify depriving them of "good childhood" for the sake of a chance to get them into those colleges. I am not saying I am right.
As to NYC, well, Jay still has a full time job there, so my ties beat yours. :) Sorry. :)
I still have a part-time job there :) That I can convert back to full time any day :) I just chose to work remotely :) OK, your ties beat mine :)) ~ So, I am back working part time, in off-season. And while I do not disagree with anything you wrote, here I say that I have enjoyed my 15 years in the CS industry big time. These has been a huge part of my life. Being very good at what I am doing has always been very important. So going to a "named" University (or rather an University with a good program) ended up being very important to me. ~ I agree that depriving a child of fun childhood for the purpose of great academic career makes little sense, imo. But, as you just did, I am not saying we are right. Just feels that way.
You know, to my own huge surprise (surprise because it really goes against the grain of my neurotic personality), we manage not to participate in this arms race, for philosophical reasons. I held Yashka back from an extra math acceleration when he was in fifth grade, because it meant getting up 1.5 hours earlier and catching the middle school bus. Then, when he said he did not want to test for a special G&T middle school because he was not sure he liked math and technology enough to specialize in them, we saw his point and did not push. I like the summer to be for running around, so we are going to the Poconos instead of doing "smart" camps. And so forth.
And with Eva, we don't teach her any reading / numbers / etc. stuff. I mean, we count floors as we go up the elevator and point out letters in her books, but we have no flashcards and "instructional time," the way I did with Yashka when he was three. She goes to a preschool that allows lots of traditional play, plus daily music and art, with no focus on things like sorting sticks. At home, she mainly plays with princess dolls. ;)
Have you read about the "Rutgers solution"? The authors of the article meant it tongue-in-cheek, but I am a total believer. The funny thing is, my most successful (at least, by traditional standards) female friend went to Rutgers for undergrad. She is now Partner in a radiology practice. And if we talk about a different kind of success, I have a friend who got her BS in comp sci from some Hawaiian university, then got PhD at Columbia and became a Harvard professor. Another person we both used to know went to Bklyn College with me and is now a professor at Princeton.
Screw the arms race.
(On the plus side, my kids love books and Yashka reads a ton and hit the ceiling at 12th grade vocab level on his school test this year, we don't watch TV, go places a lot, etc.).
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I am not sure whether I agree or disagree. On one hand, yeah, we all know people who were Ivy League material, but did not go to an Ivy League school and are doing fine. On the other hand, this may be because they were hired/ recruited by people who themselves were in that situation. As these cases become more rare, most workplaces will turn out like certain companies who don't interview people unless they come from a specific list of schools. (Remind me to tell you a story about Columbia act. Science). Also, when we graduated, we did not have so much competition from the Asians. I was interviewing recently - there are practically no non-asians applying. Or non-asians with comparable credentials.
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Let's have another phone conversation this week, there is too much to write. :)
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A: I remember years ago, me being totally and completely estranged to the idea of kids, you were explaining to me about something that could prevent Yashka from getting to Harvard. I asked, bewildered, whether UPenn will do and you gave me that look... :)))
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~
Well, clearly, there is a strong connection between University's quality and, yes, name and where the degree you get from that school can take you and what the program gives you. While at NYU, I thought that CS program was not as good as tuition/name suggested but meeting graduates from lesser known schools at work, I changed that opinion.
Then again, Lena B is now a professor at Princeton, publishing books, and all that. Her choosing Berkeley as grad school program (rated #1) vs Harvard (#2) went a long way for her. Same, when she was choosing undergrad in NY, she went for school without a big name but the one that she believed had the best program in Classics.
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As to NYC, well, Jay still has a full time job there, so my ties beat yours. :) Sorry. :)
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~
So, I am back working part time, in off-season. And while I do not disagree with anything you wrote, here I say that I have enjoyed my 15 years in the CS industry big time. These has been a huge part of my life. Being very good at what I am doing has always been very important. So going to a "named" University (or rather an University with a good program) ended up being very important to me.
~
I agree that depriving a child of fun childhood for the purpose of great academic career makes little sense, imo. But, as you just did, I am not saying we are right. Just feels that way.
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