So tonight...

[maniacx]

...I went to see a famous author (Jackson Katz) with Rachael at TWU, in a lecture hall that normally seats around 80 students. I knew to expect more than 100, and possibly close to 150. I am an introvert. I was nervous. I was antsy and fidgety. I was very far from my comfort zone.

What would this be like? I know my own feminism. I know my own

Comments

[oolieiv]

points all well made and agreed with. I try to talk about some of this with my students.

Arising from my students however, is this question: What role to some women play in perpetuating these behaviors and standards?

(not trying to open a whole can of worms or start an argument here. It's a genuine question)

Women's Role

[oolieiv]

Thanks for your question! Feminism does teach that women have active agency. In other words, women are not merely passive victims that are acted upon by society and individual actors. However, one question that does not often get asked is not why women participate in abusive events/environments (i.e. pornography, professional wrestling, rap music videos, etc.), but rather what rewards they are gaining by doing so. Unfortunately, Western society is one that offers tastes of economic privilege and power to women who use their bodies in this manner. If we lived in a society that valued women, the way women are portrayed in a lot of media would be utterly unacceptable. However, it is clear that not only are these behaviors acceptable, they are desirable and come with societal rewards! Therefore, I think the issue is quite complex and comes down to the idea that when our structural system values women, women will also learn to value themselves. I will be very happy when the day comes that women do not feel the need to be bare-

[maniacx]

That's a tough one. I think most men would quickly argue that acting ditsy or general dependence upon men implies that women need us and cannot take care of themselves

[oolieiv]

Yeah, my problem is that I see it all as a closed loop.

Men (not all men) have grown up thinking this is how it should be and seeking out those things as measures of attractiveness.

Women (not all women) grow up seeing these examples and try to fit the mold in an effort to fit in.

And there are women who pray on these stereotypes to get advantages too.

Men have to stop creating the market, and women have to stop creating the supply.

I miss Marilyn Monroe as a beauty standard, but I realize even that is sexist.

The problem's too big for me to see a way out of it. It's not something that can be legislated. So in essence, to change, it's got to be the 'pretty people' that everyone is measuring themselves against that make the change, and why would they do that?

*sigh*

[oolieiv]

I see your concern, but disagree with your conclusion. We obviously need wholesale change of societal standards regarding men and women. This isn't an overnight change, and you're right that we can't legislate beliefs -- we have to win hearts and minds

[maniacx]

Err...wow, that's my comment above. Not sure why LJ logged me out.