My head huuuuurts...
Is there anyone on my Flist who makes animated icons and would be willing to make one for me? I don't know how, and this irks me because there's one I really want...
I want this picture:
With red text (or some other color, something that will show up) that says:
The best way to make it through (fade)
With hearts and wrists intact (fade)
Is to realize...(fade)
2 out of 3 ain't bad
And I would be eternally grateful and would offer an eternity of sexual favors to the person who would make this icon for me and if I had money I'd give you that, too. :-p
Also, my friend Dave sent me an email yesterday. Here's some background on Dave: He's an ordained Baptist minister, but he's also an abuse survivor, and that's how I met him. Over the past few years we've shared some of our journeys with each other, and he's been learning to step away from the binds of conservative fundamentalism and toward God. This has been a big encouragement to me. Anyway, his email really got me thinking, so I asked him if I could repost it here and he said I could, so here it is...(I asked the questions about feeling guilty and about going to hell, and Dave wrote the longer responses).
"Do you feel any residual guilt about leaving Christianity behind?"
None. I feel a pretty good dose of sadness at all the people I know that are still dedicated to beliefs that torture them. I'll say more in answer to your next question. :)
"Think maybe you're going to hell still?"
No. And we've ruined our son. ;) Because the humanitarian group we're going to Cambodia with is Christian (just no evangelism allowed), we're required to have a home church. So we're going to the church that the father-in-law is the pastor (and where I've preached a little lately). At children's sermon a couple of sundays ago, he started talking to the kids about how we all want to go to heaven. 'No one wants to go to the other place, do you?' And he asks John (our 4 year old) this question. And John said, 'I don't want to talk about this.' And they thought he was embarrassed. People chuckled, and John runs out crying. Why? He is so sad that people believe in hell. We've told him he can believe what he likes. He asks what we believe, and I told him. He asked why his grandparents or whoever believes in hell, and I told him. Something like, a lot of people believe that if you disagree with God about something, he will torture you forever. Honestly, communicating Christian doctrines in words for children has gone a long way in showing me how - um, dumb they are. 'God is so holy that he can't forgive some people for what they do.' 'God has made this really special place with water that burns like fire. He throws people in it that disagree with him. And he has made sure they will never, ever die - just that they will be hurting really bad for ever and ever and ever.' Whatever.
So I'm way over the edge. I am still strongly attracted to Jesus' teaching and ways. But I have thoroughly rejected the cosmology that goes with the conservative Christianity I grew up in. If there is a God cruel enough to create the mass of his creatures solely to be tortured forever and ever, than I don't think I'd choose heaven anyway. Why would I want to? Even in human terms, I would have to choose a concentration camp over being the lap dog of a Hitler.....
Of course, I don't talk like this to most people. They can't understand. They try to convince me of all the arguments that I know by heart, all the Scriptures I've studied more than they ever will, and all the doctrines I devoted almost all of my life to understanding inside and out.
Like my mother-in-law. She is really worried about us (not the only one). She came over to help watch John last week, and John asked her why she believes in hell. She said, "Because the Bible says so." John said, "I don't believe it. I'm outta here." He then proceeded to run outside and hide. (I am very proud of my son. However, it has also made family relations more difficult....)
I understand why.... If we aren't scared of hell, then it is because we don't understand how serious our sins are. If we don't understand how serious our sins are, then we won't believe in Jesus. And if we don't believe in Jesus, we will go to hell. But it is surely a crazy stupid way of saying 'I love you.' :)
"Sometimes I think that still. Especially now. Sigh."
I can understand that. And I don't think you should feel bad about that. But I think you are an incredible person. And if God decides to send you there, Holly and I will volunteer to keep you company.
I really relate to this. And I'm proud of him for raising a kid who's smart enough to run away from scary doctrines like eternal torment. Even though it causes familial rifts with the Christians clinging to the doctrines...Anyway, peskipiksi's recent posts about faith have made me think about this even more often than I usually do. I'm mired in the things I was taught, even though I don't believe in the concept of hell the way Christians talk about it, I'm still afraid I'm going to go there for not believing it. Bah. My life is complicated and annoying.
I want this picture:
With red text (or some other color, something that will show up) that says:
The best way to make it through (fade)
With hearts and wrists intact (fade)
Is to realize...(fade)
2 out of 3 ain't bad
And I would be eternally grateful and would offer an eternity of sexual favors to the person who would make this icon for me and if I had money I'd give you that, too. :-p
Also, my friend Dave sent me an email yesterday. Here's some background on Dave: He's an ordained Baptist minister, but he's also an abuse survivor, and that's how I met him. Over the past few years we've shared some of our journeys with each other, and he's been learning to step away from the binds of conservative fundamentalism and toward God. This has been a big encouragement to me. Anyway, his email really got me thinking, so I asked him if I could repost it here and he said I could, so here it is...(I asked the questions about feeling guilty and about going to hell, and Dave wrote the longer responses).
"Do you feel any residual guilt about leaving Christianity behind?"
None. I feel a pretty good dose of sadness at all the people I know that are still dedicated to beliefs that torture them. I'll say more in answer to your next question. :)
"Think maybe you're going to hell still?"
No. And we've ruined our son. ;) Because the humanitarian group we're going to Cambodia with is Christian (just no evangelism allowed), we're required to have a home church. So we're going to the church that the father-in-law is the pastor (and where I've preached a little lately). At children's sermon a couple of sundays ago, he started talking to the kids about how we all want to go to heaven. 'No one wants to go to the other place, do you?' And he asks John (our 4 year old) this question. And John said, 'I don't want to talk about this.' And they thought he was embarrassed. People chuckled, and John runs out crying. Why? He is so sad that people believe in hell. We've told him he can believe what he likes. He asks what we believe, and I told him. He asked why his grandparents or whoever believes in hell, and I told him. Something like, a lot of people believe that if you disagree with God about something, he will torture you forever. Honestly, communicating Christian doctrines in words for children has gone a long way in showing me how - um, dumb they are. 'God is so holy that he can't forgive some people for what they do.' 'God has made this really special place with water that burns like fire. He throws people in it that disagree with him. And he has made sure they will never, ever die - just that they will be hurting really bad for ever and ever and ever.' Whatever.
So I'm way over the edge. I am still strongly attracted to Jesus' teaching and ways. But I have thoroughly rejected the cosmology that goes with the conservative Christianity I grew up in. If there is a God cruel enough to create the mass of his creatures solely to be tortured forever and ever, than I don't think I'd choose heaven anyway. Why would I want to? Even in human terms, I would have to choose a concentration camp over being the lap dog of a Hitler.....
Of course, I don't talk like this to most people. They can't understand. They try to convince me of all the arguments that I know by heart, all the Scriptures I've studied more than they ever will, and all the doctrines I devoted almost all of my life to understanding inside and out.
Like my mother-in-law. She is really worried about us (not the only one). She came over to help watch John last week, and John asked her why she believes in hell. She said, "Because the Bible says so." John said, "I don't believe it. I'm outta here." He then proceeded to run outside and hide. (I am very proud of my son. However, it has also made family relations more difficult....)
I understand why.... If we aren't scared of hell, then it is because we don't understand how serious our sins are. If we don't understand how serious our sins are, then we won't believe in Jesus. And if we don't believe in Jesus, we will go to hell. But it is surely a crazy stupid way of saying 'I love you.' :)
"Sometimes I think that still. Especially now. Sigh."
I can understand that. And I don't think you should feel bad about that. But I think you are an incredible person. And if God decides to send you there, Holly and I will volunteer to keep you company.
I really relate to this. And I'm proud of him for raising a kid who's smart enough to run away from scary doctrines like eternal torment. Even though it causes familial rifts with the Christians clinging to the doctrines...Anyway, peskipiksi's recent posts about faith have made me think about this even more often than I usually do. I'm mired in the things I was taught, even though I don't believe in the concept of hell the way Christians talk about it, I'm still afraid I'm going to go there for not believing it. Bah. My life is complicated and annoying.