it's possible that he shot himself with the bazooka a few times to exchange messages that way
i think the temporary irie-switching is very possible, though i was also thinking - if he'd shot himself with the bazooka, wouldn't his 10yl self be trapped in the round machine as well? unless their switching happened before the creation/activation of the round machine, which allowed 10yl irie to go back in the past and leave behind a shooting schedule for 10ye irie to follow, then return to his timeline and stay there for good.
also, DINO. i forgot about him -_- he DID know about the battles to come, didn't he? is it just insider mafia info, or is he in this whole time travel business too?
(am now starting to reevaluate what gokudera meant by "eliminating" the shouichi of ten years earlier. hoping the raws shed more light on this issue, but... i'm not banking on it XD;)
It would have to have been one hell of a detailed shooting schedule for that to work, but it's definitely a possibility. I hope we'll find out more about this next week.
I was thinking that it might have been insider mafia info, because what with this new revelation about the 7^3, it's possible that Dino and some of the other bosses knew more about the rings than they let on. But his telling Hibari about it, and specifically saying that he'd need to know how to use the flames in future battles... it's definitely weird.
(And you have no idea how many times I've gone back to the chapter with TYL!Gokudera's letter since I read this new chapter. That's still the most confusing part of all of this, IMO. XD)
I'm still working under the theory that Irie has been a bad guy for a long time. TYL!Gokudera did say something about Irie being the whole reason Byakuran is the way he is, which might be why he told Tsuna to take the guy out. I don't really believe this whole time travel nonsense is the extent of him experiments. I'd be willing to bet that his technology is what Byakuran's been using to rig the odds and have the world come out with box weapons and all this other flame powered gadgetry. That kind of stuff really hints at all-powerful elements and that jazz, which apparently is what Byakuran wants so that he can rebuild the world. I don't think Irie knew exactly how much damage Byakuran could do at first, and after he realized the extent of his plans, Irie decided to go double-agent on his boss. He's definitely pulled the space-time continuum out of whack, though. :(
Here's hoping that we get the whole Arcobaleno backstory in the next few chapters. That may clear a few things up. And create new sources of confusion.
I'm still working under the theory that Irie has been a bad guy for a long time.
If that's true, it would make this mess a whole lot simpler. Which is good, right about now. If Irie is a recent convert--I'd guess then that the full extent of Byakuran's EVIL PLAAAN scared him into having second thoughts--then it would explain Gokudera's instructions.
--Ooh, and it just occurred to me that maybe Byakuran's weird vaguely-hinted-at mind control might have something to do with it as well. Like maybe Irie was brainwashed and then TYL!Tsuna, being Tsuna, was able to undo it shortly before his death? So then Irie was left in a great position to serve as a double-agent, but the Vongola weren't exactly about to welcome him with open arms. Haha, I'm getting even more and more far-fetched now, but I kind of like the idea.
Arco backstory would be very much appreciated. Maybe if Yamamoto decides to wake up SOME TIME THIS CENTURY. XD Though personally I'm still more curious about Irie right at this moment. But the 7^3 really does seem to be at
( ... )
I'm still bothered about the warning 59 gave 27 initially. It doesn't make sense and Amano has got to pull a rabbit out of her thinking cap soon becos srsly? There's just too many question marks D< You've put alot of thought in it ne?
Yeah, like I said in one of the comments above, that's still my biggest question mark about all this. There are a lot of ways it could make sense, but as it stands now it's just plain weird.
And lol, yeah, my mind's been wandering off to theoryland pretty much any chance I've got the past couple days. I figured I should post this whole thing now before canon starts explaining everything and proving me wrong. XD
(hi there! apologies for the intrusion!)thelovemafiaNovember 16 2008, 08:07:14 UTC
Hi there! Apologies for suddenly turning up out of the blue like this - it's just that the new chapter was so fascinating I had to find out what the world thinks about it. I like the remarkable considered thought put into your posts! The only thing that I wanted to ask about was actually this:
It can't just be that TYL!Gokudera was in the dark as to Irie's true identity; his knowledge of Irie's plan rules that out I was just curious as to how Gokudera knew about Irie's plan, because the sense I got from my (admittedly brief) reading was that Gokudera was quite in the dark as to Irie's true intentions. (I assume you meant Irie's real plan: the whole I'm-really-on-your-side and interchanging past/present Guardians business)
Once again, sorry for turning up! I normally just observe, but I just wanted to ask about this one.
First off, no problem at all! I love comments, so. :)
Anyway, the reason I figure TYL!Gokudera must have known about Shouichi's plan is because of the letter he sent to his younger self. It specifically instructs them to use the Vongola rings to defeat Byakuran--something that would only be possible a) if the younger Guardians were sent to the future, and b) if they then stayed in the future for an extended period of time. Since we now know that Irie's machine is what made the latter possible, Gokudera must have known about it beforehand, or else his letter makes no sense.
And I'm just assuming that if Gokudera knew that much, he probably knew about Irie's being a double agent as well. Partly because of what I said in the post about the likelihood of the TYL!Vongola communicating with Irie, and partly because Gokudera had to get the info about the machine from somewhere, and Irie's a likely source. (Though it could have also been Mukuro.)
So it's not 100% certain, but given the letter, I'm pretty sure he knew.
The other possibility--which is way more far-fetched, but also more interesting--is that Gokudera purposely told them to target Shouichi in order to give them the motivation to find him. OOOO, I like this theory XD it could also explain Gokudera's very pained look, like, "Oh god, I have to lie to tenth...but it's the only way."
Or maybe without Shouichi, Byakuran really wouldn't have gotten that far, and Gokudera just wanted to prevent everything from even starting. :I but that theory kind of cancels itself. Or maybe Shouichi somehow started this whole mess, like with the messing around with subspace energy, and feels guilty about it.
How would TYB!Shouichi have known to shoot the Vongola kids with the bazooka? I want to say ALTERNATE UNIVERSE TYL SHOUICHI COMING BACK IN TIME. xD But then it gets really loopy, literally. X_X
Haha, even if this chapter EXTREMELY destroyed my personal canon and gassed a lot of my plot bunnies, I now have a lot of new ones. 8D
I'm actually becoming increasingly obsessed with Shouichi now. Byakuran is an epic villain, though. But still a dick. XD
It does add all sorts of neat little layers to that scene. I've gone back to look at it so many times already, so it's fun to have more to read into it now, even if it turns out I'm wrong.
I think him wanting to stop everything before it starts is also a good possibility. Like, have the TYB!Guardians take out Byakuran to save what's left of this timeline, but then go back and kill the young Shouichi as well to stop the damage from ever taking place in their own time. But a lot of it depends on exactly how time travel works, and how much you can really change... we're getting into headache territory now. XD
AND SPEAKING OF HEADHACHE TERRITORY, lol. I really like that idea, though. But the idea of there being multiple TYL!universes gets really complicated really fast. Haha, guess we'll see.
OH I KNOW. This chapter easily presents as much new theory fodder as it destroys. I'm having way, way too much fun with this.
XD I'm kind of hoping that Byakuran was expecting Shouichi to betray him, and it was all part of his plan. Then he wouldn't fall into any cliche villain patterns. xD
Haha, though it makes me feel a little guilty, I'm rooting for the same thing. It would just be so diabolically awesome, you know? Just so long as the main characters actually survived it, that is. They've only just gained some semblance of hope now that Irie's joined their side--if it turns out Byakuran anticipated it, that... proooobably won't be good. XD
I so want the cow to do something cool soon. If we're messing with time travel this much, his 15 or 25-year-old selves can drop in, damn it. :(
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i think the temporary irie-switching is very possible, though i was also thinking - if he'd shot himself with the bazooka, wouldn't his 10yl self be trapped in the round machine as well? unless their switching happened before the creation/activation of the round machine, which allowed 10yl irie to go back in the past and leave behind a shooting schedule for 10ye irie to follow, then return to his timeline and stay there for good.
also, DINO. i forgot about him -_- he DID know about the battles to come, didn't he? is it just insider mafia info, or is he in this whole time travel business too?
(am now starting to reevaluate what gokudera meant by "eliminating" the shouichi of ten years earlier. hoping the raws shed more light on this issue, but... i'm not banking on it XD;)
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I was thinking that it might have been insider mafia info, because what with this new revelation about the 7^3, it's possible that Dino and some of the other bosses knew more about the rings than they let on. But his telling Hibari about it, and specifically saying that he'd need to know how to use the flames in future battles... it's definitely weird.
(And you have no idea how many times I've gone back to the chapter with TYL!Gokudera's letter since I read this new chapter. That's still the most confusing part of all of this, IMO. XD)
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Here's hoping that we get the whole Arcobaleno backstory in the next few chapters. That may clear a few things up. And create new sources of confusion.
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If that's true, it would make this mess a whole lot simpler. Which is good, right about now. If Irie is a recent convert--I'd guess then that the full extent of Byakuran's EVIL PLAAAN scared him into having second thoughts--then it would explain Gokudera's instructions.
--Ooh, and it just occurred to me that maybe Byakuran's weird vaguely-hinted-at mind control might have something to do with it as well. Like maybe Irie was brainwashed and then TYL!Tsuna, being Tsuna, was able to undo it shortly before his death? So then Irie was left in a great position to serve as a double-agent, but the Vongola weren't exactly about to welcome him with open arms. Haha, I'm getting even more and more far-fetched now, but I kind of like the idea.
Arco backstory would be very much appreciated. Maybe if Yamamoto decides to wake up SOME TIME THIS CENTURY. XD Though personally I'm still more curious about Irie right at this moment. But the 7^3 really does seem to be at ( ... )
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And lol, yeah, my mind's been wandering off to theoryland pretty much any chance I've got the past couple days. I figured I should post this whole thing now before canon starts explaining everything and proving me wrong. XD
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It can't just be that TYL!Gokudera was in the dark as to Irie's true identity; his knowledge of Irie's plan rules that out
I was just curious as to how Gokudera knew about Irie's plan, because the sense I got from my (admittedly brief) reading was that Gokudera was quite in the dark as to Irie's true intentions. (I assume you meant Irie's real plan: the whole I'm-really-on-your-side and interchanging past/present Guardians business)
Once again, sorry for turning up! I normally just observe, but I just wanted to ask about this one.
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Anyway, the reason I figure TYL!Gokudera must have known about Shouichi's plan is because of the letter he sent to his younger self. It specifically instructs them to use the Vongola rings to defeat Byakuran--something that would only be possible a) if the younger Guardians were sent to the future, and b) if they then stayed in the future for an extended period of time. Since we now know that Irie's machine is what made the latter possible, Gokudera must have known about it beforehand, or else his letter makes no sense.
And I'm just assuming that if Gokudera knew that much, he probably knew about Irie's being a double agent as well. Partly because of what I said in the post about the likelihood of the TYL!Vongola communicating with Irie, and partly because Gokudera had to get the info about the machine from somewhere, and Irie's a likely source. (Though it could have also been Mukuro.)
So it's not 100% certain, but given the letter, I'm pretty sure he knew.
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The other possibility--which is way more far-fetched, but also more interesting--is that Gokudera purposely told them to target Shouichi in order to give them the motivation to find him. OOOO, I like this theory XD it could also explain Gokudera's very pained look, like, "Oh god, I have to lie to tenth...but it's the only way."
Or maybe without Shouichi, Byakuran really wouldn't have gotten that far, and Gokudera just wanted to prevent everything from even starting. :I but that theory kind of cancels itself. Or maybe Shouichi somehow started this whole mess, like with the messing around with subspace energy, and feels guilty about it.
How would TYB!Shouichi have known to shoot the Vongola kids with the bazooka?
I want to say ALTERNATE UNIVERSE TYL SHOUICHI COMING BACK IN TIME. xD But then it gets really loopy, literally. X_X
Haha, even if this chapter EXTREMELY destroyed my personal canon and gassed a lot of my plot bunnies, I now have a lot of new ones. 8D
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It does add all sorts of neat little layers to that scene. I've gone back to look at it so many times already, so it's fun to have more to read into it now, even if it turns out I'm wrong.
I think him wanting to stop everything before it starts is also a good possibility. Like, have the TYB!Guardians take out Byakuran to save what's left of this timeline, but then go back and kill the young Shouichi as well to stop the damage from ever taking place in their own time. But a lot of it depends on exactly how time travel works, and how much you can really change... we're getting into headache territory now. XD
AND SPEAKING OF HEADHACHE TERRITORY, lol. I really like that idea, though. But the idea of there being multiple TYL!universes gets really complicated really fast. Haha, guess we'll see.
OH I KNOW. This chapter easily presents as much new theory fodder as it destroys. I'm having way, way too much fun with this.
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LAMBO, he better be more prominent later on. X_X
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I so want the cow to do something cool soon. If we're messing with time travel this much, his 15 or 25-year-old selves can drop in, damn it. :(
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