This has to be the most sensible post about downloading I've ever read

[madamada_chan]

http://free-manga.livejournal.com/6919628.html

It's great to know there are still some people who realize how wrong downloading scanned manga is, no matter how convenient it is for everybody

Comments

[yilei]

Can't read it since I'm not a member and all, but I was kind of thinking about downloading and stuff myself recently after the SOPA/PIPA protest in the U.S./online, so I can kind of imagine the content of what they said. And I'm all for protesting those things just because they're the wrong solution to the problem and they cast a net that's far wider than it should which would then hinder freedom of speech, BUT...I had a lot to think about since the protest because in a lot of the threads and communities online, most people don't understand the protest. I don't know if it's a lack of effort, skimming, or they're just too stupid, but I seriously just want to punch some of them in the face.

Somehow, somewhere, freedom of speech = downloading in their twisted little minds. No. Just no. It's like they only read the first sentence of Wiki, Craig's List, Google's article, etc. that told them about why the pages were protesting those bills. The part where all those major online sites SAID that they were *pro* anti-PIRACY (AKA Downloading) measures, but simply against those two bills was apparently completely omitted. Copyright infringement in any form is not freedom of speech. That is a fact and was part of the auto-response Senator Feinstein sent out in her reply to her constituents, which yeah, I'll give her that, but the bills we were protesting were because they had huge loopholes in them where a major company or associations like the MPAA could abuse the law to target small companies and sites and just shut the whole thing down for one page that might have been uploaded by some hapless user without due process. That's like saying someone can upload a picture to their Facebook profile and then the FBI can go and just shut off all of Facebook. It's idiotic and that's why the protest happened, but no. 99% of the people on forums and such where pirating occurs only posts one liners that say "YEAH! PROTEST FOR FREEDOM OF SPEECH!" displaying that they have no idea what the fuck is going on. I've only see a handful of users that actually intelligently read the issues and basically stated good idea and right direction, but wrong solution.

And sorry you got picked on. They probably just comment at you because you said you agreed so then they attack you and the OP.

The real solution though, I think we're going to need an international treaty for. With the internet the way it is, one country can't fight piracy alone. ACTA is a step in that direction and a bunch of countries are supposed to sign it next year, but it's still a bit extreme. Not only that, but instead of simply punishing people, we're going to need something to fulfill people's demand. You can't take something away without having something reasonably priced to replace it with and I was thinking that maybe there should be some kind of huge multimedia database. Like countries around the world just pool their creative goods into one thing and then different services just compete to provide access to that database kind of like how cable and satellite companies compete with each other with channel selections. I mean, if I could get everything I wanted legally, why would I ever download it? Part of the reason I do download is because I can't get something and not always for lack of trying. Sometimes money isn't there or sometimes what I want is out of print or no one licensed it (this part for a show; manga I can just buy the Jpn version and read it myself).

[madamada_chan]

just shut the whole thing down for one page that might have been uploaded by some hapless user without due process.

I was just talking to my coworker about this. I was thinking, take MU for example. They shut it down and held the owners liable, and yet the users who were actually responsible for uploading and downloading the copyrighted materials are running free and can easily find another free hosting site ._.

Well I guess the owners are partly to blame because they provided the service without really putting strict restrictions on it. And for all we know, they may have had good intentions when they started the service. Like, not everyone uses MU to upload copyrighted files. I bet a good portion of them uses it to put back up files of their stuff online, like thesis or work files etc right? It's just too sad when people use something created with good intentions for bad purposes, and it's the creator who has to take all the blame.

[yilei]

I think the FBI cracked down on MU first just because the owner was already a known criminal for other reasons. Plus they had e-mails and stuff showing employees their purposefully uploading copyrighted material and telling friends and family to "let them know" if they want something. Their attitudes about their company just made them an easy target, but for other sites I really agree with you that it's more an issue with the users.

Downloading in the eyes of most governments is less of an issue than uploading and I kind of agree with that if you're not like a total leecher. Some people just mooch off the internet without putting a lot of money back and it's the users that downloaded or uploaded a lot that would probably really be in trouble. I used MU too, but mostly for streaming and I only downloaded from there when it was something I haven't been able to find. I think I had one file that was under my account, but it was something that I copied there from someone's download link by mistake. I think I tried uploading Beck to it to give to my one friend in Hawaii, but that's about it. I don't remember it working either cuz I had a crappy connection that kept disconnecting me. Uploading though is distribution and it's people who take it upon themselves to distribute that is more of a problem. But then, another part of the issue is that no one anywhere has defined what a "copy" is legally. Like I'm allowed to download something if I already own it. Then it's another copy of something I already paid for. But how many digital copies of that am I allowed to have? I would think infinite because you always have to replace your electronic devices. And then, if you bought something, but you want to let your cousin who lives far away from you to hear something you bought and physical item for, what then? Why should I have to pay for another copy just to get one person I know to hear something I bought? The vagueness in the digital age is that there's no clear definition of when it's a library shared only between friends that know each other kind of like kids that buy and trade comic books together with their school friends. It's not realistic for every 10 year old to buy every copy of the X-men. Each friend buys a copy and brings it to school and lets their friends borrow it or read it. So then what's the digital equivalent for that?

Also, for the other legal uses of MU, there are some artists and musicians and other kinds of content holders that uploaded their work there just because it had a great upload limit and some files are just too huge for e-mail. Like for an actual music industry example, if I was trying to e-mail a digital copy of my new music video to different networks or blog sites so that they can review it, I can't send that as an attachment. I have to upload it to a server somewhere and a lot of times for security purposes among other things, it can't be on the company's server. Or like, I don't think OCD used this but let's say YORKE. had an art show and was painting somewhere but he finished some touches on his computer for the next OCD PV and he needed to send it to Sugaya to look over before they put it on the website and MySpace. How would he send it to him securely without any of the fans finding it leaked?