Show and Tell

[mad_jaks]

So the weekend before last unfeathered asked me to beta Lessons Learned for her. I'd already seen the very first rough draft as she'd been kind enough to share when we were ironing out her Jack voice for the Rose thing. And I leapt at the chance because I'd seen how much potential it had. So anyway I got to the end of my first read through and mentally

Comments

Big comment part 1

[unfeathered]

OK, this is going to be in two parts because it ended up being over 1,000 words long... (sorry!)

About the no sequel thing. Lessons Learned was only ever intended as a one-shot. I wanted to write Nine/Jack and prove I could do it, just as I did the Rose/Jack thing. I really didn't want to get to the end of it and discover that it was crying out for a series, mainly because I already have two series on the go, even if only one of them actually has more than one part posted - and I'm finding it hard enough to get back into Master Plan, let alone finding time for Connection, and I had a lot of ideas for follow-ups when I first posted that.

Also, when Jack said, "Want me to reciprocate?" to the Doctor, he honestly meant (in my head) it absolutely literally - i.e. return blow-job, perhaps with a bit of extra 51st century finesse, but as I'd more or less exhausted my blow-job descriptive powers by then, I really didn't want to write it. I don't think I could have written it.

Which is why I was so surprised when you said you wanted to write the sequel, and so excited - because obviously you, not being me, would think of something entirely different to do with them. And you really, really did.

And I think the next 45 minutes waiting for her reply rank right up there with childbirth on the seeming to last forever league table ;-)

I am so sorry about that. I know only too well what that's like. Even when you know the person you're waiting for is a busy mum who doesn't actually sit at her computer every minute of the day, however much she'd like to… I can't remember specifically, but from the time of day I suspect I was getting Jack (son Jack, not Harkness) off for his nap, and was then around for an hour or two after I replied.

she sounded pretty miserable that it wasn't hot.

OK. I didn't think I was miserable but I guess I was, a little bit. Only because it simply hadn't occurred to me that something like what I'd written might not be that hot. (And it's very interesting that some people really thought it was - including you, and yes you had got across that you thought it hot, so don't worry about that.) That post of mine really was just me trying to work out why. :-)

Jack's not touching the Doctor's crotch even then - he's just got his chin on his hand, staring at the Doctor like he's trying to read his thoughts

I think I'd have loved this version too…

Sure you're hard but not because of what you were doing... "

At this point I should tell you that I was dithering about the Doctor being hard AT ALL. Because I had noticed that it wasn't about the sex for him (even if I hadn't figured out that was why it wasn't particularly hot). But then I had that bit about Jack's orgasm and I felt that with the lesson out of the way, that would have got him a bit hard. But I wasn't sure how hard he'd be, which was why 'the Doctor's jeans which are not doing much to hide the fact that watching Jack come has had a bit of an effect on the Doctor' was deliberately ambiguous about exactly how much of an effect it had had.

Jack's seen inside the Doctor's drawer and I haven't *G*.

Neither have I. Wish he'd show me. *g*

Big comment part 2

[unfeathered]

what possibly seems the oddest of comments on the history of creation

Yeah, one of those really tantalising comments where I have absolutely no idea what the hell you're talking about… Actually, I still don't get why you were all 'no don't tell me'. It really was a simple matter of tense.

he only takes it off to wash.

Or when the Doctor makes him.

Made him.

Jack thinks it in the present tense, because his days with the Doctor (in S1) are so recent. He corrects it to the past tense because he's not with the Doctor any more and has no idea when or if he will be again. It had nothing to do with, as you put it, 'Oh I... just once?'. I had no intention of implying just once or, really, more than once. That was up to the reader. :-)

And in terms of Lessons Learned, the initial reason the Doctor had him take the wristband off was because it would have been just weird tying him up with it still on. Chains, yeah, I could get away with that, but not tying up with silk ties. You'd want a bare wrist for that.

Then, of course, it developed a bit more meaning, which you obviously got so that's OK!

he used the f word back there and expects Jack not to be stupid enough not to pick up on it

Ah, but he did very carefully say "you want to fuck, you do it with me". Not 'to me'. *g* Not that I'm complaining, or anything.

I come across a thread [ ] that runs along the lines of Yeah Jack's definitely the sub in that relationship but we'd really like to see him *not*.

This one?.

And since unfeathered had - long before then - surprised the heck out of both of us and written Day After for lt_kitty who requested it when she ran the Time Stamp meme.

I'm sorry about that too. I had no idea it would cause you any problems, mainly because - as I've already said - I had no idea what you were writing, because I couldn't conceive what you would be writing. And I really should have run it past you before posting. That was naughty of me.

And I'm so glad you didn't just leave it at the Doctor's orgasm. The coda is what really makes it. And I love the way you ended it in very much the same way as Day After.

Right. Now I'm going to go off and edit my own fic. And at some point I may actually get round to reading the rest of my flist! :-)

Re: Big comment part 2

[mad_jaks]

I still don't get why you were all 'no don't tell me'
Simply because *just once* totally swamped me as an image - particularly as I had the Doctor by then looking out to see what he could use and not Jack. I didn't want to hear the logic and grammar. I wanted - needed - to keep hold of the *feeling* itself.

you want to fuck, you do it with me
He did and it may even have been what he meant - at the time - but he was ultimately telling Jack not to have any other partners. Which btw Jack *so* gets as he then replies "Hey, if that blow job is anything to go by, I don't think I need anyone else!" And the Doctor doesn't correct him so I crossed my fingers and hoped you wouldn't mind...

Er yes *that* was definitely one of the threads *g* Was it the LALALALALA gave it away? OMG you guys were trying to kill me with that one. But I'm sure there was another one that actually mentioned wanting to see Nine submitting which was more the feel I was after... even if ultimately he was always going to actually be the one in charge.

I'm sorry about that too
Seriously NO need to be this was your sandpit and I feel priviledged to have been allowed play in it. It wasn't like you'd planned it or anything though *seriously* if you'd written spanking or something similar I'd have been totally stuffed! So I was really grateful for that :D
As it was even if I *had* finished on the orgasm I'd've probably not been happy and felt compelled to add some sort of closure to the piece before posting. In fact I should be thanking you for having written them being so relaxed with each other about the whole thing. So I knew they'd already reached yet another level of understanding which actually made it that much easier for me to get a handle on what had happened... Even if it did mean I ended on a bit of *smush*

Re: Big comment part 2

[unfeathered]

I wanted - needed - to keep hold of the *feeling* itself.

OK. Your writing process is definitely very different to mine and I didn't get that, but it sort of makes sense now. And I really, really loved the way you used the wristband...

you want to fuck, you do it with me
He did and it may even have been what he meant - at the time - but he was ultimately telling Jack not to have any other partners.

Oh, yes. That's exactly what I/he meant. No other partners, for anything. But I don't think he had anything specific in mind. It might or might not have included allowing - wanting - Jack to fuck him. (I'm glad it did. *g*)

Yeah, I think there was a discussion about Nine submitting and I think it was over at Becky's somewhere - probably on or just after the same day, which might narrow it down to perhaps five or six posts... *g*

I would NOT have written spanking. As previously discussed! :-)

As for the ending - ah well, glad I could help then! :-)

Re: Big comment part 2

[mad_jaks]

Your writing process is definitely very different to mine
Maybe it's because my first writing experience in here was with dw100 which is your classic one word prompt comm. On a good day I can get a hell of a lot off one word ;-)

It might or might not have included allowing - wanting - Jack to fuck him. (I'm glad it did. *g*)
See now if you'd been all *specific* about that it wouldn't have been possible for me to do it. Proving my point that it doesn't pay to be too clear. ;-)

Re: Big comment part 1

[mad_jaks]

Honestly do I have to get my Paranoia icon out for you?? *g*

he honestly meant (in my head) it absolutely literally Oh but then you have him say
there's still a thing or two I could teach you… which actually leaves us to wonder what - I know the Doctor was ;)

Even when you know the person you're waiting for is a busy mum who doesn't actually sit at her computer every minute of the day, however much she'd like to
Yes even then and I'm sorry of came across as a complaint it wasn't meant ot be it was just part of the bigger picture *mwah*

I think I'd have loved this version too…
There really was *way too much dialogue* and also as Jack had already made it perfectly clear to me that he wasn't going to be coming until after the Doctor it would have left the them in the exact same situation all over again. Which as a writer I could live with but might be a bit boring for the readers...

At this point I should tell you that I was dithering about the Doctor being hard AT ALL.
I don;t think that would have made any difference to Jack's conclusion - in fact it might have made it easier for him. I'm not sure - I didn't have to deal with the situation...

Neither have I
Which is really weird considering how much we both know about the rest of that room ;-) I suppose we'll just have to add it to the list of things we agree on about it :D

Re: Big comment part 1

[unfeathered]

Oh but then you have him say
there's still a thing or two I could teach you… which actually leaves us to wonder what - I know the Doctor was ;)

A thing or two he could teach him about blow-jobs - and God, I don't know what - that's why I didn't write it! *g*

The busy mum thing was me trying to tell you I understood it was the same for both of us, not thinking you were complaining! :-)

Re: Big comment part 1

[mad_jaks]

was me trying to tell you I understood it was the same for both of us
*gets Paranoia icon out for self*
I thought I'd upset you - we're a right pair!

Re: Big comment part 1

[unfeathered]

I think we're still discovering how each other thinks, tbh - for two people who agree on so much, we do seem to interpret things very differently sometimes, and we definitely don't always get exactly what each other means.

*Makes note to be clearer* :-)

Re: Big comment part 1

[itsarift_thing]

*Makes note to be clearer*
Oh no don't get too clear that would take half the fun out of it...

Re: Big comment part 1

[unfeathered]

But I like understanding things.

I like understanding things completely. Every tiny little part of things.

I may be a little bit obsessive about this.

And I am going to bed in a minute, honest. *g*