I need to get my unhealthy reaction to the last few hours of BSG off my chest I guess. I apologise for bad spelling mistakes and general incoherence in advance. ( Obviously spoilers for the last episode )
Oh dear. I was waiting for your post because you were so so sure that the end was going to have pilots together either happily or in death when we were commenting back and forth last week on my fic.
Yes, I was. Because only something like that would’ve been a logical closure that would’ve given pilots justice and not massacred them and the importance of their connection to pieces.
Ironic now that we were debating if it would be selfish of Kara to ask Lee to forget about her when apparently all she wanted to be was REMEMBERED (if you believe RDM--WHICH I DO NOT.) So what do you think, is that more or less selfish than wanting him to forget her?
I saw red before my eyes when I heard this shit of an “insight” about the fact that she wanted to be remembered! I can’t tell you if it’s selfish or not because it’s not even KARA!!! I’ll never take it seriously, because she’d never say something like that and those who know her at least as well as… I don’t know - an average fan! - would tell you her greatest fear was about something entirely different!
Blegh. I am filled with rage (I've been weepy and chanted the "they're not real" many times too but I keep coming back to rage every time) that it ended the way it did.
Yes, I feel blind rage even now as I’m typing it. This was my favorite female character on this show dammit! And this motherfucker treated her like a piece of trash! Moreover he managed to break my heart by treating both Lee and Kara like that.
As I said elsewhere, many women on BSG were terribly treated without repercussions, but Kara - more than anyone. What RDM did to her is the cheapest ugliest move ever and a huge emotional betrayal of hundreds or fans and anyone who truly saw the beauty of BSG in S1-2 when it was a totally different show.
Lee and Kara are the only ones being punished in the finale IN SUCH cruel way in the same episode where RDM reminded us of Baltar and Caprica preparing the destruction of billions of people and in which THEY get a happy ending at the farm. How crazy is that? I won’t even mention that the only female characters that survived are Cylon or half Cylon and that the only people that got to be together are also either Cylon/Cylon or Human/Cylon. I don’t know what sort of righteous conclusion he was expecting the audience to make of it. For me it’s a sacrilege just as leaving Lee an infinite martyr and having an easy way out of Kara problem. Instead of explaining her death RDM just stabbed us in the worst way possible because his revelation basically equals that Kara never even really existed in S4. She was brought back just to make us watch and then shock us the SECOND TIME and make the audience bleed out for her. I don’t only feel sheer fury, I’m butchered Tara. And I want to make him pay and suffer horrible consequences.
Why did she die in the first place?! Why did she return? To randomly press some keys? Are you kidding me?! How did she resurrect? Why was she abused? Why was she molested and physically invaded in S2 (Farm) and why did the Cylons need her ovaries?! What sort of destiny is that and why did her mother think she needed abuse as a part of some frakking preparation program?! Her biggest fear was to be forgotten?! Are you crazy? She was never about that! Her biggest fear was to open up and be loved as much as Lee Adama loved her and not to hold back her own overwhelming feelings that she was cursed to suppress her entire life! We deserved better as an audience. Kara Thrace who was raped mentally and physically through her dreams and some such more times than would be healthy to count deserved MUCH BETTER.
Your anger is righteous. The more I think about, the worse I feel. I've been livid for the past five days now. Just that she got so used as a stupid tool of destiny (and Lee too.) Terrible. So wrong and disrespectful for the characters. I think Ron came to hate Kara and Kara/Lee and I don't understand why. But I'm done with him. I'm trying to get to a place where I can just dismiss this ending and pretend it never happened. (Hard because I'm a canon whore and to dismiss it when I know it exists seems a little like cheating. But it's tough to respect an ending where NO AUTHORIAL CHOICES were made and nothing reinforced what came before (especially for these two, but also for Laura and for the fact that everyone went off separately, so stupid) or the themes that were so essential to this show. BLEGH.
Your anger is righteous. The more I think about, the worse I feel. I've been livid for the past five days now. Just that she got so used as a stupid tool of destiny (and Lee too.) Terrible. So wrong and disrespectful for the characters. I think Ron came to hate Kara and Kara/Lee and I don't understand why. But I'm done with him.
I will never ever watch anything he produces again. I’ll run away from it like from a stinking piece of crap, because obviously it’s very unlikely for him to get his brains and heart back after he drank them away or whatever it is he did last year. Plan? Caprica? He can go fuck himself, I couldn’t care less. There’s no way I’ll invest myself into anything he’s involved in when there are no guarantees he doesn’t get bored with another project as well. I think my heart can only take this much and be ruined. When you beat a dog to pulp time after time it’s ridiculous to expect it to come back and put its head on your lap with adoring eyes. It’s very unlikely I’ll ever ship another pairing as much as I did ship L/K. And anyway, I’m convinced that such characters as them come to us only once in a very very long time. Probably dozens of years, if not more.
I'm trying to get to a place where I can just dismiss this ending and pretend it never happened. (Hard because I'm a canon whore and to dismiss it when I know it exists seems a little like cheating.
That’s my main problem. I used to be obsessed with canon in the past. I always highly respected f-fiction that was as close to canon as possible. And I know the whole S4 doesn’t make sense but fact is - I watched it till the end. And given that I’m also a very visually attuned and receptive person, it’s impossible to get rid of certain imagery I have in my head. I reject in mentally conceptually and narrative-wise, I detest it, but can’t do anything about it. I dream the finale episode and it haunts me like a nightmare and every day I wake up with a sinking feeling in my chest. It has to stop somewhere, but my way will be much longer than for most of the fans I suspect. Reading fics doesn’t help, their faces from this parody of a canon are too damn vivid when I shut my eyes afterwards. Rewatching and trying to come to terms with the finale is out of the question because it is ugly and ridiculous from start to finish. I’ve been living with these characters for four fucking years and now I can’t even think about rewatching S1-2, because I don’t think I can go through watching all the pain they went through with no payoff.
I feel just this way too. I've never loved any characters like this before. It's so awful. And if you're a canonwhore this finale leaves you nothing. Not one part. Because if you go back to the beginning that's tainted and if you go to anything Maelstrom and after that's tainted. And everything in the middle is pain that will never payoff.
I keep trying to compartmentalize and figure out a way to love pilots again despite, IN SPITE, of RDM. Because why should he take that away from us because of his sloppy LACK OF storytelling? He shouldn't. Because then he's taking away OUR free will too. So frak him. I am still processing but I'm going to find a way back.
I feel just this way too. I've never loved any characters like this before. It's so awful.
You know I think I’ve never loved any characters not only in tv-series but in literature as much as KL either, although I’ve read enough in my life. I can think of some fictional characters comparable to Lee and Kara as individuals in terms of my affection, but as for relationship dynamic - it’s a unique case on all accounts from friendship to trust longing and the sense of equality that I treasure so much. Plus their intensity with each other in general is beyond this world.
I keep trying to compartmentalize and figure out a way to love pilots again despite, IN SPITE, of RDM. Because why should he take that away from us because of his sloppy LACK OF storytelling? He shouldn't. Because then he's taking away OUR free will too. So frak him.
You either love or you don’t. Love isn’t something you can willingly forget or turn off like the light in your room. So for me not loving pilots is unimaginable. But I think another kind of love is in question here at this point (and pilots are involved in it) - our love for this show, its narrative, the resolution and payoff on for many plotlines. In fact, all of the plotlines in general. In this respect - we have to deal with… you could call it - an unrequited love. I wanted two things from this finale: to see good resolution of the big story as a whole and high respect for the characters. I got neither. So the question is, will I be able to still love the show when it screwed with my beloved characters, but moreover - it screwed with every possible major theme it’s been successfully exploring throughout these years? I understood one thing today: it’s not only painful for me to watch pilots in S4. That - I could probably deal with by eventually, in course of months of hard work, dismissing the whole season ever happened. If pilots were the only issue, I’d still enjoy the early seasons, if I knew that other characters and storylines got their logical resolution. But. Just imagine. How frakking pointless and disgusting it would be to watch Baltar and Six in S1 entering the Opera House for the first time when you know that Opera House is a big joke and a POOF as well invented only so that they could lead a child from one room to another at the end?! They could lead Lee or Nicky or Hot Dog from one room to another as well and it wouldn’t make any difference. How would you feel watching Roslin reading her prophesies when you know they’re never explained and mean nothing… or Kara going to Caprica to retrieve the arrow or the destruction of the Colonies when you know it’s all the God’s big perverted plan or that the Head characters are simply angels of this amoral freak that’s called God who decide to show up when they “have something to say”, not when it makes sense? Or that Hera has no importance whatsoever, she’s just a simple kid who will be a hostage to different bunches of people in their futile attempt to find compromise? And more than anything, how would you feel watching the pursuit and mass murder of humans, their sufferings and struggles and for what? Just so that they could arrive on Earth2 and go separate ways having zero chances of surviving in the new unknown world without technology and mutual support for more than a few months, if not days.
We might as well consider rewriting the whole series you know. I’m struggling too, but I can’t imagine rewatching BSG after RDM destroyed and poisoned one big rich story with lots of complex questions exploration altogether in record time - less than two hours! BSG is rotten now from start to finish. And unfortunately, pilots are also the hostages of this huge story, we can’t chop them off of that world… even in the mini and S1-2 they are a part of process. I can’t reconcile with that. So I’m really losing it…
Yes, I was. Because only something like that would’ve been a logical closure that would’ve given pilots justice and not massacred them and the importance of their connection to pieces.
Ironic now that we were debating if it would be selfish of Kara to ask Lee to forget about her when apparently all she wanted to be was REMEMBERED (if you believe RDM--WHICH I DO NOT.) So what do you think, is that more or less selfish than wanting him to forget her?
I saw red before my eyes when I heard this shit of an “insight” about the fact that she wanted to be remembered! I can’t tell you if it’s selfish or not because it’s not even KARA!!! I’ll never take it seriously, because she’d never say something like that and those who know her at least as well as… I don’t know - an average fan! - would tell you her greatest fear was about something entirely different!
Blegh. I am filled with rage (I've been weepy and chanted the "they're not real" many times too but I keep coming back to rage every time) that it ended the way it did.
Yes, I feel blind rage even now as I’m typing it. This was my favorite female character on this show dammit! And this motherfucker treated her like a piece of trash! Moreover he managed to break my heart by treating both Lee and Kara like that.
As I said elsewhere, many women on BSG were terribly treated without repercussions, but Kara - more than anyone. What RDM did to her is the cheapest ugliest move ever and a huge emotional betrayal of hundreds or fans and anyone who truly saw the beauty of BSG in S1-2 when it was a totally different show.
Lee and Kara are the only ones being punished in the finale IN SUCH cruel way in the same episode where RDM reminded us of Baltar and Caprica preparing the destruction of billions of people and in which THEY get a happy ending at the farm. How crazy is that? I won’t even mention that the only female characters that survived are Cylon or half Cylon and that the only people that got to be together are also either Cylon/Cylon or Human/Cylon. I don’t know what sort of righteous conclusion he was expecting the audience to make of it. For me it’s a sacrilege just as leaving Lee an infinite martyr and having an easy way out of Kara problem. Instead of explaining her death RDM just stabbed us in the worst way possible because his revelation basically equals that Kara never even really existed in S4. She was brought back just to make us watch and then shock us the SECOND TIME and make the audience bleed out for her. I don’t only feel sheer fury, I’m butchered Tara. And I want to make him pay and suffer horrible consequences.
Why did she die in the first place?!
Why did she return? To randomly press some keys? Are you kidding me?!
How did she resurrect?
Why was she abused?
Why was she molested and physically invaded in S2 (Farm) and why did the Cylons need her ovaries?!
What sort of destiny is that and why did her mother think she needed abuse as a part of some frakking preparation program?!
Her biggest fear was to be forgotten?! Are you crazy? She was never about that! Her biggest fear was to open up and be loved as much as Lee Adama loved her and not to hold back her own overwhelming feelings that she was cursed to suppress her entire life! We deserved better as an audience. Kara Thrace who was raped mentally and physically through her dreams and some such more times than would be healthy to count deserved MUCH BETTER.
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I will never ever watch anything he produces again. I’ll run away from it like from a stinking piece of crap, because obviously it’s very unlikely for him to get his brains and heart back after he drank them away or whatever it is he did last year. Plan? Caprica? He can go fuck himself, I couldn’t care less. There’s no way I’ll invest myself into anything he’s involved in when there are no guarantees he doesn’t get bored with another project as well. I think my heart can only take this much and be ruined. When you beat a dog to pulp time after time it’s ridiculous to expect it to come back and put its head on your lap with adoring eyes. It’s very unlikely I’ll ever ship another pairing as much as I did ship L/K. And anyway, I’m convinced that such characters as them come to us only once in a very very long time. Probably dozens of years, if not more.
I'm trying to get to a place where I can just dismiss this ending and pretend it never happened. (Hard because I'm a canon whore and to dismiss it when I know it exists seems a little like cheating.
That’s my main problem. I used to be obsessed with canon in the past. I always highly respected f-fiction that was as close to canon as possible. And I know the whole S4 doesn’t make sense but fact is - I watched it till the end. And given that I’m also a very visually attuned and receptive person, it’s impossible to get rid of certain imagery I have in my head. I reject in mentally conceptually and narrative-wise, I detest it, but can’t do anything about it. I dream the finale episode and it haunts me like a nightmare and every day I wake up with a sinking feeling in my chest. It has to stop somewhere, but my way will be much longer than for most of the fans I suspect. Reading fics doesn’t help, their faces from this parody of a canon are too damn vivid when I shut my eyes afterwards. Rewatching and trying to come to terms with the finale is out of the question because it is ugly and ridiculous from start to finish. I’ve been living with these characters for four fucking years and now I can’t even think about rewatching S1-2, because I don’t think I can go through watching all the pain they went through with no payoff.
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I keep trying to compartmentalize and figure out a way to love pilots again despite, IN SPITE, of RDM. Because why should he take that away from us because of his sloppy LACK OF storytelling? He shouldn't. Because then he's taking away OUR free will too. So frak him. I am still processing but I'm going to find a way back.
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You know I think I’ve never loved any characters not only in tv-series but in literature as much as KL either, although I’ve read enough in my life. I can think of some fictional characters comparable to Lee and Kara as individuals in terms of my affection, but as for relationship dynamic - it’s a unique case on all accounts from friendship to trust longing and the sense of equality that I treasure so much. Plus their intensity with each other in general is beyond this world.
I keep trying to compartmentalize and figure out a way to love pilots again despite, IN SPITE, of RDM. Because why should he take that away from us because of his sloppy LACK OF storytelling? He shouldn't. Because then he's taking away OUR free will too. So frak him.
You either love or you don’t. Love isn’t something you can willingly forget or turn off like the light in your room. So for me not loving pilots is unimaginable. But I think another kind of love is in question here at this point (and pilots are involved in it) - our love for this show, its narrative, the resolution and payoff on for many plotlines. In fact, all of the plotlines in general. In this respect - we have to deal with… you could call it - an unrequited love. I wanted two things from this finale: to see good resolution of the big story as a whole and high respect for the characters. I got neither. So the question is, will I be able to still love the show when it screwed with my beloved characters, but moreover - it screwed with every possible major theme it’s been successfully exploring throughout these years? I understood one thing today: it’s not only painful for me to watch pilots in S4. That - I could probably deal with by eventually, in course of months of hard work, dismissing the whole season ever happened. If pilots were the only issue, I’d still enjoy the early seasons, if I knew that other characters and storylines got their logical resolution. But. Just imagine. How frakking pointless and disgusting it would be to watch Baltar and Six in S1 entering the Opera House for the first time when you know that Opera House is a big joke and a POOF as well invented only so that they could lead a child from one room to another at the end?! They could lead Lee or Nicky or Hot Dog from one room to another as well and it wouldn’t make any difference. How would you feel watching Roslin reading her prophesies when you know they’re never explained and mean nothing… or Kara going to Caprica to retrieve the arrow or the destruction of the Colonies when you know it’s all the God’s big perverted plan or that the Head characters are simply angels of this amoral freak that’s called God who decide to show up when they “have something to say”, not when it makes sense? Or that Hera has no importance whatsoever, she’s just a simple kid who will be a hostage to different bunches of people in their futile attempt to find compromise? And more than anything, how would you feel watching the pursuit and mass murder of humans, their sufferings and struggles and for what? Just so that they could arrive on Earth2 and go separate ways having zero chances of surviving in the new unknown world without technology and mutual support for more than a few months, if not days.
We might as well consider rewriting the whole series you know. I’m struggling too, but I can’t imagine rewatching BSG after RDM destroyed and poisoned one big rich story with lots of complex questions exploration altogether in record time - less than two hours! BSG is rotten now from start to finish. And unfortunately, pilots are also the hostages of this huge story, we can’t chop them off of that world… even in the mini and S1-2 they are a part of process. I can’t reconcile with that. So I’m really losing it…
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