Discussion: Army of Ghosts and Doomsday
A discussion - all welcome - on the final two episodes of last season's Dr Who. Answer or comment on every number, or just choose the ones that engage you. Happy New Year!
Hopefully The Runaway Bride will follow...
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Hopefully The Runaway Bride will follow...
( Read more... )
What does this exchange say about Torchwood's ethos? In particular, about its attitude to other life forms v the Doctor's attitude to humans?
Well, it's funny because they don't view the Doctor the same as other aliens. He's in their charter but they almost admire him. They want to keep him but they need his help. I don't think they treat other prisoners/aliens quite the same way, that is comfortably. They figure if they treat him right, he'll stay right where they put him. We don't really know what happened to the other aliens do we?
The Doctor knows that humans screw up but he still likes them. Torchwood views every alien as hostile and a threat. Ironically, this is the Doctor's fault because of the interaction with Queen Victoria. Torchwood's philosophy is "different = threat" whereas the Doctor is entertained by humans, most of the time. That is when they aren't opening the void and sucking Rose into it.
9. Are your views changed or confirmed by Torchwood's initial refusal to believe they don't have control of the "ghosts"?
This was really Yvonne's view and not Torchwood's. Although, she really was Torchwood 1- London, wasn't she? Didn't change my view. Torchwood = idiots. Torchwood 3 = idiots.
What does the stand-off between Yvonne and the Doctor at this point tell you about him?
Well, he was willing to let Yvonne make the mistake. Free will and all that. It was strange because he had to know at that time that Rose was no longer in the TARDIS. Either he felt that he could fix whatever Yvonne broke or he felt that they deserved whatever they got for playing with things they didn't understand.
10. Is there any additional significance in the sphere's being called The Genesis Ark (what with Noah's Ark being in Genesis and all)? How does this fit with the final revelation that it was a prison ship?
Well, it traveled through the Void (Hell). *laughs* Did it travel for 40 days and 40 nights? I suppose we could say that it was a Genesis Ark because it was going to repopulate the Earth and all that rubbish. This is a throw back to Parting of the Ways. Once again we need a time traveller (human will do) to wake up a Dalek or in this case the Ark. That's getting a bit creepy. Here we have the Doctor's biggest enemy and they have to keep relying on the humans for a jump start. That's a bit strange RTD. Pretty soon the Doctor is going to have to come to a decision to wipe out the human race in order to wipe out the Daleks. Time War II: Death to the Earth!
The question is did the Time Lords name it the Genesis Ark or did the Daleks? I'm betting on the Daleks. Although, that would mean that the weird concept of religion that we saw in Parting of the Ways is still flowing through the Daleks and that's also strange. If the Time Lords named it, someone has a sick sense of humor.
11. The Doctor gives Jackie his word he will "get you and your daughter home". Is he already resigned to losing Rose here?
Well, he's really making a promise that he can't keep regarding Rose. He has to know that she'll never stay willingly.
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I thought it was a given that the concept of religion was still happening, because these Daleks are the Famous Cult of [so famous I can't remember the name of it]. They have names and all, and are "above" the Emperor. I thought the Daleks named it, because to them it's a re-beginning, whereas to the Time Lords it was only a prison ship.
Well, he's really making a promise that he can't keep regarding Rose. He has to know that she'll never stay willingly.
I agree with your latter assertion, but not the former. I think he has no intention of giving her a choice in the matter, until she defuses him by coming back anyway. ("You're our prisoner, but we'll make you perfectly comfortable.")
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Okay, my Who history is weak but I thought the concept of religion was due to the infection of human DNA into the Dalek genome when the Daleks used human tissue to repopulate (Parting of the Ways). No eh?
And it's the Cult of Skaro as in the home planet of the Daleks :)
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I didn't mean that he knew he couldn't keep it just that the Doctor should have learned by now that he shouldn't make promises regarding what Rose will do. She never does what he wants her to do. If he didn't learn his lesson when she looked into the Time Vortex there really is no hope for him. He probably thought sending her back in the TARDIS was foolproof and she still found a way back in Parting of the Ways.
If you notice, he picked up two magnaclamps and not one in Doomsday!
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