Thoughts about betrayal in the Buffyverse

[lostboy_lj]

To help with a new fic I'm writing, I've been doing a re-watch of both "Buffy" and "Angel" lately.  It has inspired a few random thoughts.  One of the thoughts that struck me is that the bad guys in the Buffyverse (and perhaps in all plays, films and TV shows) are largely marked by their instinct to betray. This is especially true amongst the show'

Comments

[lostboy_lj]

Wood's betrayal is actually much worse than Giles'

Oh definitely. I agree with that. Robin's crime is very similar to Andrew's, in that they allowed themselves to become willing tools of The First because of their own personal weaknesses (which I think is why they do the same bit with Andrew's eyes in his fake "Storytelling" flashback that they did with Robin's eyes when he was standing over the seal). I guess what I'm saying is that neither Robin nor Andrew does what he does because they "are" evil, but because they are weak, and therefore more likely to do certain evil deeds.

His never telling anyone (before he tells Faith anyway) that the First was the one who told him that Spike was the one who killed his mother is, to me, a bigger betrayal than anything else.

Hmmm. I didn't remember the scene (in "Touched") quite this way. I just went back and watched it, and Robin does not seem to be implying to me that he got originally the information from the First - after all, he knew exactly who Spike was and that he'd murdered his mother the first time he laid eyes on him, and he had even seen him before in the past battling Nikki (at least one time, and possibly more). The fact that he saw Spike fighting her is what saved her. It distracts Spike and let's Nikki slip away.

I just watched the Robin-Faith scene again, and all he says is that the First appeared to him as his mother, "right down to the perfume", and that - just like Andrew - he knew it was a trick, but that it was also "true." In other words, The First knew exactly which buttons to press to get him to kill Spike... it knew his "trigger", and pulled it.

The idea that Robin realizes this afterward and comes to grips with his own role in his downfall is important, because it means (like the other heroes) he wants to be a good person. Andrew and Robin's redemption begins the moment that they realize that their weakness was what led them to evil.

Here's the other really interesting thing. When The First confronts Faith in the guise of the Mayor to press her buttons and exploit her weakness, Robin intervenes and tries to help... and yet they still both fail: "No. You're the leader" Robin says at the end of the scene. Robin and Faith come to this conclusion even though Robin's been put run the ringer already and knows the trick well enough to explain it.

This is why The First is the most dangerous enemy of all. Even though you know it exists and that it's trying to trick, you still fall for it because it knows every single angle of your heart. Because it's part of you.

[local_max]

Oh: I agree that Robin wasn't telling Faith about his motivations re: Spike. I mostly just referenced that scene to note that he does, eventually, at least tell someone that the First talked to him, which is more than he did up until that point. But yes, agreed about Faith, though ultimately I think the Mayor is a different situation: it is perfectly reasonable to assume, in Faith's case, that the First is trying to double-bluff her into doubting herself. Arguably the First could have been trying to double-bluff Wood, too, but I think that's a bigger leap.

[lostboy_lj]

I mostly just referenced that scene to note that he does, eventually, at least tell someone that the First talked to him, which is more than he did up until that point.

Oh yeah, totally. I guess what I was saying is that the way The First corrupted Robin was the same M.O. it used for everyone else (except, notably, for Spike, who it needs to use a more abstract trigger for).

it is perfectly reasonable to assume, in Faith's case, that the First is trying to double-bluff her into doubting herself.

I suppose so, but the only problem with that is that Faith leads her team directly into the First's trap, so it appears that having Faith lead the team plays right into the First's hands. A doubting Faith might have sought out Buffy instead of leading the team, which Faith tells Robin she's been considering doing ("The First is telling me to worry about her, and I just wish she was here. In a couple hours, I'm gonna lead these girls into some serious crap, and she's the only one-").

Robin talks her out of this ("She's not the only one. You're a slayer too, Faith, and I think you're a good leader."), but Faith was right to doubt her own leadership. Faith is not a leader. She is still a lone wolf, while Buffy is a fully experienced general who can see thru The First's game and beat it.

[local_max]

Oh, well, my point is not "this is what the First was doing." But, you know: rather, I think it's, "you shouldn't just always do the exact opposite of what the First says." After the fact, we can conclude that Faith's judgment was wrong. But I don't think it's clear to me that Faith should have been able to conclude that the First offering her encouragement was a sign she should have become more discouraged. From her perspective, it makes as much sense that the First was trying to psych her out into doubting herself.

[lostboy_lj]

From her perspective, it makes as much sense that the First was trying to psych her out into doubting herself.

Yep! I think that's why Faith asks Robin if the First told him "the truth." We know what "truth" the First was telling "Faith", but we don't know exactly what "truth" it was telling Robin. I think we can guess what the fake Nikki told Robin though, based on seeing The First in the forms of Warren and Mayor Wilkins. Also, in "Lies", it becomes pretty clear that Robin believes that his mother didn't really love him, or that she loved the mission more than him, so I'm sure The First worked that into it's pitch. "I promise love you if you complete this mission, Robin..."

In my opinion, what Robin and Faith don't understand yet is that The First only tells the truth about what is inside your own heart, not about the world outside your heart. For instance:

MAYOR/FIRST
Deep down, you always wanted Buffy to accept you, to love you even. Why do you think that is?

FAITH
You a shrink now?

MAYOR/FIRST
(pacing) You keep looking for love and acceptance from these people, these friends of yours, but you're never gonna find it. The truth is, nobody will ever love you. Not the way I love you.

What The First is doing is reminding Faith of the worst things she believes about the world and other people, and the fears and resentments inside her own head. The First knows the facts of Faith's fear and anger, just as it knows those of all its other victims, but it doesn't know any real "truth" about the world.

[norwie2010]

Ahh! Brilliant! unfortunately, i have to bow out of the discussion for the next 20 hours or so (i have a bad case of flu and a huge workload for tomorrow...).

[lostboy_lj]

That's cool! So awesome when you stop by to chat, though.

It SO SUCKS when I'm sick AND got a snotload of work to do. I know the feeling.

Hope you shake that flu soon. :)

[readerjane]

Yep. The First was very good at mixing its lies with truth (and thereby making the lies far stronger).

[lostboy_lj]

Yeah. And what's weird is its lies are sometime Big, Giant Whoppers of Lies, like the bizarre fantasy scenario he presents to Andrew. But it suspects Andrew will buy into it anyway, because it knows that Andrew is a fabulist at heart, and is constantly turning his own life into fiction.

The Big Lie it tells Faith is that Buffy is dangerous to their mission... the mission being to defeat The First itself! Why would it think Faith could possibly believe that, instead of doing the opposite? Its lies are so bold, the answer must be that The First knows the big weakness in us is that we sometimes try to be too logical, and don't trust what our hearts are telling us is right.

(This conversation makes me want to do a post about The First, and what I think all his incarnations tell us about the characters it is trying to trick. Spike's encounters are very interesting, especially the final one, where The First appears to him as himself.)

[readerjane]

I would love to read that!