CHAOSVERSE BOOK CLUB: WEEK TEN
The very lovely Earlgreytea68 is away this weekend so she asked me to put some thoughts together for her Chaosverse Book Club this week.
Chapter Twenty
Wow. So much happens in this chapter.
The conversation Rose and Jackie have early on about how Jackie talks about the Doctor in the past tense and Rose "always present-tense[s] him in [her] mind" really stood out to me in this read through and I find it interesting how Rose's mentality really seems to mirror that of Brem and Athena later on when they're insistent that they will not go anywhere until their mother comes back. It seems that everyone except the Doctor is convinced that he'll find a way to get Rose back and I wonder if that pressure isn't part of the reason why he resists so long when he does find a potential solution - he doesn't want to let any of them down.
Jackie's intelligence is demonstrated so very well in this chapter. I adore the way she extrapolates from her conversation with Rose about Bad Wolf Bay that the Doctor might need help to get through. How did she come up with that? She's amazing, simply amazing. Without Jackie figuring this out there's no way he would have been able to come and get Rose and Fortuna. I love Jackie so much for this. she's really and truly awesome, isn't she? Also, I love how clear it is that Jackie loves her daughter. From the little things she does like finding Ian Dury or Dr Seuss to finally going to Mickey and asking for help to get Rose back to her original universe. Jackie demonstrates such unconditional love in her willingness to let go of Rose, most notably when she says to Mickey, "I'm happier with a Rose I never get to see but who I know is happy, than with a Rose I see every day but who I know is miserable." That's is right there isn't it? We love deepest when we're willing to let go of someone for the sake of what's best for them rather than our own desire to be near that person.
Fortuna is born! The contrast between her birth and the birth of both of her siblings is quite dramatic. Brems birth was such a happy occasion, filled with so much love and warmth. Fortuna's by comparison is quite stark and sombre. There's more trauma involved what with her coming early and everything and the absence of the Doctor is so very obvious. We know, of course, that although Fortuna's early months are quite bleak and joyless she is eventually one of the happiest and cheery members of the family. I can't help but wonder if she would have been the same if she'd been born under less traumatic circumstances.
Questions for discussion:
We know that later on when Rose is "rescued", Jackie decides to go with her. Do you think Jackie is already starting to come to that decision in this chapter? Or does it happen later?
Athena and Brem are absolutely steadfast in their belief that their mother is coming back. Was it right of the Doctor to continue to indulge this belief when he genuinely thought there was no way to get her back?
Rose chooses not to name her baby without the Doctor. Do you think she was right to wait? Would naming the baby have changed anything?
Dr. Seuss had been even more prolific in this universe Just for fun, what do you think some of the new Dr. Seuss books Rose discovered would have been called?
Chapter Twenty One
Brem breaks my heart over and over again in this chapter. I forget sometimes when reading this how young he is. Such a brave, strong little boy he is. The way he handles the situation when his Dad is late, taking charge and trying not to worry Athena, while awesome, is also worrying. At four years old, he should be carefree and happy not holding his entire family together by a thread. I read this and I weep a little for the loss of Brem's childhood. The Doctor has done his best but this is probably one of the most heartbreaking casualties of this whole storyline. It's no wonder Brem and the Doctor still have some unresolved issues by the time he goes to college.
The Doctor is late because he's sleeping. He sleeps so infrequently that it's quite an indication of how bad things are that he needs the rest.
Of course, after all that, Brem discovers the holes that Mickey is punching through from the other side and what we have is perhaps one of the most heartbreaking things about this chapter in hindsight - the Doctor allowing Brem to take a monumental responsibility on his young shoulders. I admit, Berm is so very determined and confident here that I can see how it would be very hard for the Doctor to refuse him, but at the same time, in allowing him to do it, by not being the parent and putting his foot down, the Doctor is causing severe damage to his relationship with his son without meaning to. It's a good thing they got Rose back in the end because if they hadn't I think that the guilt could have destroyed Brem. You know he would have blamed himself.
Brem says to his father at one point, "You weren't really the end. You're kind of the beginning. We're not alone. Because we're us." Well doesn't that just sum up the whole overarching theme of the Chaosverse right there? We know the Doctor does come to the realisation later that his family is a new beginning, that they're the start of a whole new era of Time Lords, but it's fascinating to me that it's Brem who first points it out. Brem, a little boy who once again acts far too old for his young years.
Questions for discussion:
Do you think the Doctor should have held firm and refused to allow Brem to help? Or could that have done just as much damage to their relationship/Brem's childhood? (And would they have been able to get Rose back without it)
When she's saying goodbye to Brem, Sarah Jane tells him, "You are both exactly and not at all like your father." What do you suppose she means by this?
Chapter Twenty Two
Ahh Torchwood and Jack. Two elements that in the Chaosverse are sure to mean silliness, mockery and hilarity and earlgreytea68 does not disappoint. I have to admit that the children's idolisation of Jack and the Doctor's horror at this realisation is endlessly funny to me. There's a lot of comedy in this chapter which I appreciate because it helps to break up the tension that's been building since Rose slipped from the lever.
Not a lot actually happens in this chapter. There's a lot of rehashing the past with Jack and setting the plan in motion to rescue Rose, but really this chapter is calm in comparison to the ones that surround it. The calm before the storm...
Questions for Discussion:
For the first time, he wanted Brem to be around when he was saving the universe. It wasn't until reading this passage that I realised how much the Doctor tries to shield his children from the worst aspects of what he does. They clearly haven't ever seen him become "The Oncoming Storm" yet. Do you think that if they had they would have had more or less faith in their father? Would it have scared them, or would it have made them more convinced that he could get Rose?
Brem’ll get me back here through sheer force of will. The universe will whimper and cower at the idea of Brem Tyler turning his displeasure upon it.” I nearly missed this but wow. This statement indicates that the Doctor thinks Brem, even at four years old is a force to be reckoned with. Do you think this means that Brem has the potential to become the Oncoming Storm as well? Or does he become something else? Could he perhaps be even more terrifying to the things that go bump in the universe than his father is? Have we already seen this trait in him in later stories?
Next Week: Chapter 23, 24, and 25 of Chaos Theory in Vortex Orbits in Relative Dimensions in Time and Space
Chapter Twenty
Wow. So much happens in this chapter.
The conversation Rose and Jackie have early on about how Jackie talks about the Doctor in the past tense and Rose "always present-tense[s] him in [her] mind" really stood out to me in this read through and I find it interesting how Rose's mentality really seems to mirror that of Brem and Athena later on when they're insistent that they will not go anywhere until their mother comes back. It seems that everyone except the Doctor is convinced that he'll find a way to get Rose back and I wonder if that pressure isn't part of the reason why he resists so long when he does find a potential solution - he doesn't want to let any of them down.
Jackie's intelligence is demonstrated so very well in this chapter. I adore the way she extrapolates from her conversation with Rose about Bad Wolf Bay that the Doctor might need help to get through. How did she come up with that? She's amazing, simply amazing. Without Jackie figuring this out there's no way he would have been able to come and get Rose and Fortuna. I love Jackie so much for this. she's really and truly awesome, isn't she? Also, I love how clear it is that Jackie loves her daughter. From the little things she does like finding Ian Dury or Dr Seuss to finally going to Mickey and asking for help to get Rose back to her original universe. Jackie demonstrates such unconditional love in her willingness to let go of Rose, most notably when she says to Mickey, "I'm happier with a Rose I never get to see but who I know is happy, than with a Rose I see every day but who I know is miserable." That's is right there isn't it? We love deepest when we're willing to let go of someone for the sake of what's best for them rather than our own desire to be near that person.
Fortuna is born! The contrast between her birth and the birth of both of her siblings is quite dramatic. Brems birth was such a happy occasion, filled with so much love and warmth. Fortuna's by comparison is quite stark and sombre. There's more trauma involved what with her coming early and everything and the absence of the Doctor is so very obvious. We know, of course, that although Fortuna's early months are quite bleak and joyless she is eventually one of the happiest and cheery members of the family. I can't help but wonder if she would have been the same if she'd been born under less traumatic circumstances.
Questions for discussion:
We know that later on when Rose is "rescued", Jackie decides to go with her. Do you think Jackie is already starting to come to that decision in this chapter? Or does it happen later?
Athena and Brem are absolutely steadfast in their belief that their mother is coming back. Was it right of the Doctor to continue to indulge this belief when he genuinely thought there was no way to get her back?
Rose chooses not to name her baby without the Doctor. Do you think she was right to wait? Would naming the baby have changed anything?
Dr. Seuss had been even more prolific in this universe Just for fun, what do you think some of the new Dr. Seuss books Rose discovered would have been called?
Chapter Twenty One
Brem breaks my heart over and over again in this chapter. I forget sometimes when reading this how young he is. Such a brave, strong little boy he is. The way he handles the situation when his Dad is late, taking charge and trying not to worry Athena, while awesome, is also worrying. At four years old, he should be carefree and happy not holding his entire family together by a thread. I read this and I weep a little for the loss of Brem's childhood. The Doctor has done his best but this is probably one of the most heartbreaking casualties of this whole storyline. It's no wonder Brem and the Doctor still have some unresolved issues by the time he goes to college.
The Doctor is late because he's sleeping. He sleeps so infrequently that it's quite an indication of how bad things are that he needs the rest.
Of course, after all that, Brem discovers the holes that Mickey is punching through from the other side and what we have is perhaps one of the most heartbreaking things about this chapter in hindsight - the Doctor allowing Brem to take a monumental responsibility on his young shoulders. I admit, Berm is so very determined and confident here that I can see how it would be very hard for the Doctor to refuse him, but at the same time, in allowing him to do it, by not being the parent and putting his foot down, the Doctor is causing severe damage to his relationship with his son without meaning to. It's a good thing they got Rose back in the end because if they hadn't I think that the guilt could have destroyed Brem. You know he would have blamed himself.
Brem says to his father at one point, "You weren't really the end. You're kind of the beginning. We're not alone. Because we're us." Well doesn't that just sum up the whole overarching theme of the Chaosverse right there? We know the Doctor does come to the realisation later that his family is a new beginning, that they're the start of a whole new era of Time Lords, but it's fascinating to me that it's Brem who first points it out. Brem, a little boy who once again acts far too old for his young years.
Questions for discussion:
Do you think the Doctor should have held firm and refused to allow Brem to help? Or could that have done just as much damage to their relationship/Brem's childhood? (And would they have been able to get Rose back without it)
When she's saying goodbye to Brem, Sarah Jane tells him, "You are both exactly and not at all like your father." What do you suppose she means by this?
Chapter Twenty Two
Ahh Torchwood and Jack. Two elements that in the Chaosverse are sure to mean silliness, mockery and hilarity and earlgreytea68 does not disappoint. I have to admit that the children's idolisation of Jack and the Doctor's horror at this realisation is endlessly funny to me. There's a lot of comedy in this chapter which I appreciate because it helps to break up the tension that's been building since Rose slipped from the lever.
Not a lot actually happens in this chapter. There's a lot of rehashing the past with Jack and setting the plan in motion to rescue Rose, but really this chapter is calm in comparison to the ones that surround it. The calm before the storm...
Questions for Discussion:
For the first time, he wanted Brem to be around when he was saving the universe. It wasn't until reading this passage that I realised how much the Doctor tries to shield his children from the worst aspects of what he does. They clearly haven't ever seen him become "The Oncoming Storm" yet. Do you think that if they had they would have had more or less faith in their father? Would it have scared them, or would it have made them more convinced that he could get Rose?
Brem’ll get me back here through sheer force of will. The universe will whimper and cower at the idea of Brem Tyler turning his displeasure upon it.” I nearly missed this but wow. This statement indicates that the Doctor thinks Brem, even at four years old is a force to be reckoned with. Do you think this means that Brem has the potential to become the Oncoming Storm as well? Or does he become something else? Could he perhaps be even more terrifying to the things that go bump in the universe than his father is? Have we already seen this trait in him in later stories?
Next Week: Chapter 23, 24, and 25 of Chaos Theory in Vortex Orbits in Relative Dimensions in Time and Space