The Crash of the Byzantium - meta on The Time of Angels and Flesh and Stone
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I'm currently doing a rewatch of series 5 as part of a viewing marathon, and I've recently watched The Time of Angels and Flesh and Stone. I'd forgotten how much fun and how scary these eps are, but it's also nice to look back at how thematically, visually and mythologically rich they are. This started out as a short meta but then grew to epic ( Read more... )
I'm currently doing a rewatch of series 5 as part of a viewing marathon, and I've recently watched The Time of Angels and Flesh and Stone. I'd forgotten how much fun and how scary these eps are, but it's also nice to look back at how thematically, visually and mythologically rich they are. This started out as a short meta but then grew to epic ( Read more... )
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Yeah, it's a really different experience watching it knowing what happens with the conclusion (?) of the River arc in TWoRS. It puts a different spin on things - not least because i feel so much more for how hard it must be for River to maintain the facade.
I wonder if she went to visit Amy just then because it was so strange for her to see an Amy that didn't know who she was, an Amy who was meeting her for the first time. Or there is always the fact that she was supposed to be earning her pardon through the Angels mission, so i wonder if she went straight to see her mum after she was freed. It seemed to be quite a regular thing for her to visit Amy, so i reckon she's done it lots since telling them who she was in AGMGTW.
Just checked my email! Thanks so much for the files :) ♥ , i've emailed you back
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Yeah, I'm in the U.S., but my husband's a Scouser. Liverpool is my second home. I really rather wish we were moving on his side of the pond than mine, but I already had the household, job, etc. So, he's coming over here.
The hypothesis I have about which version of River goes is that at some point, older Doctor tells that version of River to go tell the Ponds. River's definitely not acting like this is the last time she'll see her parents, and I think the events of the Byzantium>Big Bang>Utah pt. 2 all happen in close succession for older River. River will still see her parents at different points in her timestream, this just happens to be the version that gets to tell her parents that he's alive.
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Here, River is essentially the dark goddess, Hecate, who journeys into the Underworld. She leads Amy and the Doctor into the Maze of the Dead, the catacombs under the cliff, a literal Underworld of the dead.
Ha! Being deep into thinking about River as Persephone in season six (with Amy as Demeter), it took me a minute to get turned around, but then, what do River and Amy always do but swap roles back and forth? And who better to guide a journey through the underworld than one who went through one themselves?
So, can we say that when Amy jumped the Doctor at the end of the second episode, she was just following script, then? ; )
River is the only person to refer to the maze as a labyrinth, and and a maze and a labyrinth are two completely different things.
Oh, nice!
A sacrifice must be freely given in ( ... )
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Ha! Being deep into thinking about River as Persephone in season six (with Amy as Demeter), it took me a minute to get turned around, but then, what do River and Amy always do but swap roles back and forth? And who better to guide a journey through the underworld than one who went through one themselves?
Oooh yes. I haven't really gone back and looked at series 6 in depth terms of the greek myth yet, but of course River is Persephone who is stolen away to the Underworld. And it's that thing about reversing the polarity again - River and Amy as poles shifting and changing. Cos the trials of the Underworld are all about wisdom, the wisdom Persephone/Amy gains through her journey into the Underworld ultimately leads to her growth into Demeter, the mother.
River is later on in her life, older, so she is Hecate. I wonder if we wil see her middle-years in the role of Demeter in the future. And Amy as Hecate. That would complete the myth nicely.
So, can we say that when Amy ( ... )
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It's the prescence of death that haunts River's life, Hades is always close to her, watching her with the knowledge of her death, he holds the reality of Death without possibility of real physical rebirth in his hands.
I've been thinking over ways in which the Doctor is like Hades, and I'm gonna have to try to remember that one.
Love love love. This is how i'm going to try and think of the Library afterlife now.
Defending River's ending in the Library and helping other people like it is one of my little fannish crusades, so this makes me wonderfully happy!
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I hadn't heard of the older Persephone myths, and had only known of the mother-daughter polarity between Persephone and Demeter. Interesting to see the duality become a balance of three with Hecate - much like the maiden, mother and crone of the fates, weaving and cutting the threads of peoples' lives, and influencing humans' past, present and future lives.
*goes away, thinking of the triple connections between two women*
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Hecate is in the Homeric "Hymn to Demeter" , and it's likely that this was the canonical version of the tale in the Eleusinian mysteries (Hecate is also on some early artwork).
It's so interesting, because like you say, Amy and River play all 3 roles. In series 6 Amy becomes Demeter and River Persephone. And the Doctor is always Hades (plus loads of other gods!).
I like the idea of their 3 aspects being like the fates as they are all to do with the flow of time through a persons life (amongst other things) and there's a strong link there to timelines and weaving them carefully. Each person spinning out their own timeline, River and the Doctor weaving theirs carefully together. Then the cutting bit, which i don't like so much because it means someone leaves or dies.
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