Deadwood Reunion Time!
Yesterday's tv was all about Deadwood cast reunions -- okay, they were on different channels but still, y'know, it's BAAACK. Sort of.
First, and just in general, I'm kind of in love with "Justified". First, because it's Timothy Olyphant, who's getting to have quite a bit more fun with this role than he EVER had as Bullock. Second, because it's Elmore Leonard, and so even the stupidest dirtbag on the planet can TALK. (the cousins thing last night -- hilarious). And I like everybody, even the dirtbags in their somewhat charming, dumbass dirtbag way. I like that the secondaries get their moments to shine even in these early two episodes.
The one drawback to this show is that I start talking that way after I watch. My Great Aunt Gustine (who lived in Kentucky) would be proud. :)
But before that, Titus Welliver was back on LOST! AND THERE WAS A PIG. AND YOU KNOW WHAT THAT PIG WAS DOING. *dies*
ahem. Anyway (and yes, I also think Richard's "are you the devil?" questioning of Jacob was a nod at Pellegrino's role on Supernatural. it fit, but in an episode where they put in a corpse-eating pig for Welliver, that's gotta be a wink at Lucifer as well).
SO. YAY. We get to find out who the hell Richard is, and how he got to the Island, and why he's immortal. And it was all so tragic. Carbonell really was great and carried the ep pretty much on his own for a good half hour until Welliver showed up.
(aside: I AM SO GLAD THEY SHOWED THE FRONT OF THE DAMN STATUE FINALLY. Although I think it's an Egyptian personification of JACOB, given that it has hippo-attributes but is not at all female. It's Taweret's role of restraining Apep, the Serpent of Chaos, that the statue is invoking, not her role as protector of childbirth).
Oh, good lord, you know it's a mytharc heavy episode when I spend HOURS with this open in tab and on my various replies at TWOP trying to clarify my thoughts.
Anyway.
So the Island is a cork on top of malevolence. Which some are taking to mean Smokey/Esau himself. Which I think is true, but I suspect is only part of it. Because Jacob didn't say that he was a jailer and Esau was the prisoner, which was another easy analogy if it was just a matter of containing Esau. So I'm wondering if that whole thing with the Swan and the EM energy is what the Island is really containing. Smokey might just be a manifestation of it.
When Juliet said "it worked", what they were trying to do was SEAL THE BREACH. So maybe it's been leaking all this time, just enough to make Smokey. But then, fast-forward a hundred years and Dharma came around and started drilling at it, releasing more and more. And hell, maybe that's why the Dharma people were killed, because they kept trying to open it. (though I still tend to think that was Widmore's doing, but I suspect we're going to find out real soon now).
Jacob used to be a bit ... less patient back in the old days, didn't he? But then that was apparently the first time he'd had a surprise visitor out to kill him (and given the knife in Richard's hand, I think it was pretty obvious what he was there for). Man, I loved that whole 'baptism' scene - "you think you're dead? How about now? How 'bout now?" Until finally Richard had to admit he wasn't dead and he didn't want to die, either. But even though they're both manipulative magnificent bastards, one of the main differences is: Jacob doesn't make promises he can't fulfill, and he delivers his end up front.
"I want my wife back." -- "nope, can't do that".
"Can you absolve me of my sins?" -- "nope, not that one either."
"I want to live forever so I never have to face hell." -- "okay, THAT one, I can do"
That whole exchange was GOLD.
Interesting to me while reading those who object to the idea of Jacob leaving people in the dark to founder without explanation, is that Jacob actually proves WHY in this episode. He tells Richard what the Island is, and why it's important and that he's there to protect it. And guess what happens? Richard does whatever Jacob wants for the next 150 years. Does he consider the right and wrong of his actions anymore? No, apparently he doesn't.
Richard took up a knife and promised to kill a stranger on the vague assurance that this person was the devil. Jacob's point is that Richard (and anyone) should know that is an EVIL act without his being there to tell them it's bad. I don't think anyone would argue that the ship's officer who came in to murder helpless prisoners did evil on the vague assurance that it would increase his own chances of survival. The only real difference is that Jacob was obviously not helpless (though Richard didn't know that when he agreed) and so it failed, and that Richard had to be tempted into doing it, whereas the officer seemed to think of it all on his own. But I think the temptation is PART of the test and always has been. That's why Esau has the power to be able to look into people's hearts/memories and imitate the forms he sees.
Jacob knows that most people will fall for it-- his argument isn't that people are innately good, he knows that's not true, and why he's not surprised when people choose badly. He just hopes they don't. Esau, on the other hand, has given up hope of humans being redeemable AT ALL. They aren't judged on their balance of good and evil (I think perhaps that's what he USED to do, but not now). Now they're only judged on how useful they are to him.
Jacob's good because he's there to protect the Island and therefore the world from whatever dark power its containing. Esau is bad because he's given up on helping Jacob with that job, and forcing Jacob into all kinds of messy counter-strategies to keep doing his job. But Jacob isn't Jesus or a saint -- he's not there to help people find enlightenment or show them the right path. It's not his job. We have no idea what rules bind HIM -- he seemed to have no idea what Richard was talking about at first certainly suggests omniscience isn't part of the package.
But anyway, I suspect that Jacob is the Dogen-in-the-Temple for the Island. He's the body that powers the containment. And until and unless a candidate is found, the cork WILL pop and that energy will spread out. MIB/Esau doesn't care any more about stopping it - he's just waiting for it to happen so he can go out into the world again. I think this whole trek to Hydra is just to get the rest of the candidates either fallen or dead so the END comes.
okay, that's not even all my thoughts, but my brain has given up for a little while.
phew! I think I better post before I get even more carried away.
First, and just in general, I'm kind of in love with "Justified". First, because it's Timothy Olyphant, who's getting to have quite a bit more fun with this role than he EVER had as Bullock. Second, because it's Elmore Leonard, and so even the stupidest dirtbag on the planet can TALK. (the cousins thing last night -- hilarious). And I like everybody, even the dirtbags in their somewhat charming, dumbass dirtbag way. I like that the secondaries get their moments to shine even in these early two episodes.
The one drawback to this show is that I start talking that way after I watch. My Great Aunt Gustine (who lived in Kentucky) would be proud. :)
But before that, Titus Welliver was back on LOST! AND THERE WAS A PIG. AND YOU KNOW WHAT THAT PIG WAS DOING. *dies*
ahem. Anyway (and yes, I also think Richard's "are you the devil?" questioning of Jacob was a nod at Pellegrino's role on Supernatural. it fit, but in an episode where they put in a corpse-eating pig for Welliver, that's gotta be a wink at Lucifer as well).
SO. YAY. We get to find out who the hell Richard is, and how he got to the Island, and why he's immortal. And it was all so tragic. Carbonell really was great and carried the ep pretty much on his own for a good half hour until Welliver showed up.
(aside: I AM SO GLAD THEY SHOWED THE FRONT OF THE DAMN STATUE FINALLY. Although I think it's an Egyptian personification of JACOB, given that it has hippo-attributes but is not at all female. It's Taweret's role of restraining Apep, the Serpent of Chaos, that the statue is invoking, not her role as protector of childbirth).
Oh, good lord, you know it's a mytharc heavy episode when I spend HOURS with this open in tab and on my various replies at TWOP trying to clarify my thoughts.
Anyway.
So the Island is a cork on top of malevolence. Which some are taking to mean Smokey/Esau himself. Which I think is true, but I suspect is only part of it. Because Jacob didn't say that he was a jailer and Esau was the prisoner, which was another easy analogy if it was just a matter of containing Esau. So I'm wondering if that whole thing with the Swan and the EM energy is what the Island is really containing. Smokey might just be a manifestation of it.
When Juliet said "it worked", what they were trying to do was SEAL THE BREACH. So maybe it's been leaking all this time, just enough to make Smokey. But then, fast-forward a hundred years and Dharma came around and started drilling at it, releasing more and more. And hell, maybe that's why the Dharma people were killed, because they kept trying to open it. (though I still tend to think that was Widmore's doing, but I suspect we're going to find out real soon now).
Jacob used to be a bit ... less patient back in the old days, didn't he? But then that was apparently the first time he'd had a surprise visitor out to kill him (and given the knife in Richard's hand, I think it was pretty obvious what he was there for). Man, I loved that whole 'baptism' scene - "you think you're dead? How about now? How 'bout now?" Until finally Richard had to admit he wasn't dead and he didn't want to die, either. But even though they're both manipulative magnificent bastards, one of the main differences is: Jacob doesn't make promises he can't fulfill, and he delivers his end up front.
"I want my wife back." -- "nope, can't do that".
"Can you absolve me of my sins?" -- "nope, not that one either."
"I want to live forever so I never have to face hell." -- "okay, THAT one, I can do"
That whole exchange was GOLD.
Interesting to me while reading those who object to the idea of Jacob leaving people in the dark to founder without explanation, is that Jacob actually proves WHY in this episode. He tells Richard what the Island is, and why it's important and that he's there to protect it. And guess what happens? Richard does whatever Jacob wants for the next 150 years. Does he consider the right and wrong of his actions anymore? No, apparently he doesn't.
Richard took up a knife and promised to kill a stranger on the vague assurance that this person was the devil. Jacob's point is that Richard (and anyone) should know that is an EVIL act without his being there to tell them it's bad. I don't think anyone would argue that the ship's officer who came in to murder helpless prisoners did evil on the vague assurance that it would increase his own chances of survival. The only real difference is that Jacob was obviously not helpless (though Richard didn't know that when he agreed) and so it failed, and that Richard had to be tempted into doing it, whereas the officer seemed to think of it all on his own. But I think the temptation is PART of the test and always has been. That's why Esau has the power to be able to look into people's hearts/memories and imitate the forms he sees.
Jacob knows that most people will fall for it-- his argument isn't that people are innately good, he knows that's not true, and why he's not surprised when people choose badly. He just hopes they don't. Esau, on the other hand, has given up hope of humans being redeemable AT ALL. They aren't judged on their balance of good and evil (I think perhaps that's what he USED to do, but not now). Now they're only judged on how useful they are to him.
Jacob's good because he's there to protect the Island and therefore the world from whatever dark power its containing. Esau is bad because he's given up on helping Jacob with that job, and forcing Jacob into all kinds of messy counter-strategies to keep doing his job. But Jacob isn't Jesus or a saint -- he's not there to help people find enlightenment or show them the right path. It's not his job. We have no idea what rules bind HIM -- he seemed to have no idea what Richard was talking about at first certainly suggests omniscience isn't part of the package.
But anyway, I suspect that Jacob is the Dogen-in-the-Temple for the Island. He's the body that powers the containment. And until and unless a candidate is found, the cork WILL pop and that energy will spread out. MIB/Esau doesn't care any more about stopping it - he's just waiting for it to happen so he can go out into the world again. I think this whole trek to Hydra is just to get the rest of the candidates either fallen or dead so the END comes.
okay, that's not even all my thoughts, but my brain has given up for a little while.
phew! I think I better post before I get even more carried away.