asoiaf fandom. *sigh* Again.
I've talked about this elsewhere but I'd kind of like to do it in a forum where I don't have to worry about being polite and I can swear as much as I like.
Linda of Westeros.org, I just can't. She a vile, nasty piece of work and I hate, hate, hate the fact that she's one of the most public faces of this fandom. I really, really hope she's not going to be at TitanCon, seeing her filth in text form is bad enough, I don't want to hear it actually coming out of her mouth.
Except that the Lyseni being known for being blonde is sort of a major point? And the character certainly is supposed to be.
IS IT FUCK. Yeah, yeah, Young Griff, possible Targ, possible Lyseni imposter because Lyseni have Targish colouring, SO THE FUCK WHAT? The violet eyes have already been jettisoned for the show so that's one aspect of that plot point gone. So that leaves silver hair. Finding a kid with silver hair is a major plot point? Really? REALLY? Does the show (assuming it even gets that far) have to make a big deal about him being Lyseni? Can they not just say that they found a kid with Targish colouring? It's not that hard to maintain internal consistency, the tweaking required would be minimal SO CALM YOUR TITS. Assuming this is all true of course, HE MIGHT ACTUALLY BE A TARG, RENDERING THIS ENTIRE DISCUSSION MOOT.
Unless she means that silver-haired hooker that Jorah had on his lap. If she seriously tries to argue that "Jorah has a silver hair fetish" is major plot point, I'll laugh up my sleeve.
I said it about Xaro and I will say it again: for me, this just smells of the production listening to complaints about the show being "too white" and its infuriating. What else will they change to pander to public opinion?
This comment...WOW. This is just vile. First of all, how dare she complain of "pandering," when the entertainment industry has been doing this to white people since cameras were invented? Erasure of POC's and replacing them with white characters is common place. 21 springs to mind or perhaps the adaptation of Anansi Boys that Neil Gaiman nixed because they wanted to have an all-white cast (there's one story where race is absolutely vital to the plot). Or how about having POC characters but having them played by white actors? Why hire a mixed-race actor to play Alexandre Dumas when you can just have Gerard Depardieu in black face and a curly wig? Or how about A Mighty Heart? Get an actress of the appropriate ethnicity? LOL NO, just black up Angelina Jolie and give her a perm, no one will mind. These productions both brazenly admitted that they did this because white actors were more bankable/appealing to the audience. THAT IS PANDERING. CASTING TWO BLACK ACTORS FOR SECONDARY, MINOR ROLES IS NOT. Jesus fucking christ, how fucking ignorant and insensitive can you get? Check your entitlement. And no, one Heimdall and one mixed-race Spiderman does not restore the balance.
Secondly, does she not consider how insulting this is to the actors in question? "Sorry guys, you're actors second, black people first. You will always be judged by the colour of your skin, first and foremost." How is this not racist again?
Its infuriating that the production listens, not that people want it. It is, however, silly to want to change a book just to have more ethnic diversity on TV. There's plenty of other avenues. If everything has to be equal and PC, then don't film books.
Linda, this isn't infuriating, your entitled, privileged whining is what's infuriating. You know, maybe they weren't hired because of ethnic diversity, maybe they were hired because they're good actors. Even if there is some positive discrimination going on here, what's more important? Staying true to some very sketchy world-building in a fictional setting or POC's being able to see people like them represented in the media. OH WAIT NO, SORRY, SILLY ME. BOOK PURISM IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE WORLD. THOSE SILLY POC'S SHOULD JUST STFU AND DEAL, RIGHT?
And it is also infuriating that racism always gets brought up.
OH LINDA, YOUR LIFE IS SO HARD. whitegirlproblems.com
I am against colour-blind casting for pre-existing source materials with clear descriptions of what characters should look like.
Yes, so clearly described that many fans didn't even realise they were white.
I am especially against both the above mention things if I feel there's any chance that the production is doing it to silence complaints about the world being too white or having too few women in powerful roles. Its the source material they signed on for, they should respect that as far as budget and other such constraints allow.
Or you could just accept the fact that it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, that there are more important considerations that *~purity of the material.~* Or, you could just accept that the books =//= the show, WHICH THE AUTHOR HIMSELF HAS DONE. Excercise that higher-order reasoning that humans beings are supposed to possess and separate the two media in your mind. Or you could just be a stubborn wank-stain and go off and have bouncing, bigoted babies with Dirk Benedict.
In the case of Xaro, I also think its ridiculous to change the character's height and build so extremely; I feel this will radically change the character
HOW DOES THAT AFFECT THE STORY? His height and build will have ZERO IMPACT on Dany's plot-line (or is she saying that burly men can't be gay? They have to be effeminate? Do I spy some bonus homophobia in here too?)All he does is sit around on cushions all day, trying to get Dany to marry him. That's it! That. is. IT. I'm sorry, I'm calling shenanigans here. I don't remember this much angst over Jorah being cast attractive rather than the fugly than he is in the books. Same goes for Tyrion. I don't remember anyone being "infuriated" over Syrio having a full (utterly awesome) head of hair rather than being bald as a coot. I don't recall hand-wringing over world building when the plump Roger Allam was cast to play the morbidly obese Illyrio. But as soon as two (Count 'em TWO, omg, they're taking over) black guys are cast? "OMG, THEY'RE NOT BEING TRUE TO THE BOOKS, WHARRRRGLEGARRRBLE, REVOLT, BLACK PEOPLE, IN MY FANTASY WORLD? NEVAR!"
I'm sorry, you can't expect to let all these other changes pass almost without comment, then piss and moan about a couple of black guys being cast without people suspecting that, like the Avenue Q Song, YOU'RE A LITTLE BIT RACIST.
I don't buy the world-building argument. There is no reason these cities, these ancient, cosmopolitan cities with strong trading links can't have people of many ethnicities residing in them. They can easily do this and keep the world internally consistent. And besides, George's world-building isn't as exact as all that. Get over yourselves, he doesn't have Tolkien levels of attention to detail going on here. There's plenty of wiggle-room.
Stop throwing your toys out of your pram.
Suck it up and deal.
Stop spewing racist shit.
Please don't come to TitanCon.
TL;DR version: Game of Thrones casts a grand total of two black actors for season two, co-owner of biggest fansite on the web loses her shit. I call racism.
Linda of Westeros.org, I just can't. She a vile, nasty piece of work and I hate, hate, hate the fact that she's one of the most public faces of this fandom. I really, really hope she's not going to be at TitanCon, seeing her filth in text form is bad enough, I don't want to hear it actually coming out of her mouth.
Except that the Lyseni being known for being blonde is sort of a major point? And the character certainly is supposed to be.
IS IT FUCK. Yeah, yeah, Young Griff, possible Targ, possible Lyseni imposter because Lyseni have Targish colouring, SO THE FUCK WHAT? The violet eyes have already been jettisoned for the show so that's one aspect of that plot point gone. So that leaves silver hair. Finding a kid with silver hair is a major plot point? Really? REALLY? Does the show (assuming it even gets that far) have to make a big deal about him being Lyseni? Can they not just say that they found a kid with Targish colouring? It's not that hard to maintain internal consistency, the tweaking required would be minimal SO CALM YOUR TITS. Assuming this is all true of course, HE MIGHT ACTUALLY BE A TARG, RENDERING THIS ENTIRE DISCUSSION MOOT.
Unless she means that silver-haired hooker that Jorah had on his lap. If she seriously tries to argue that "Jorah has a silver hair fetish" is major plot point, I'll laugh up my sleeve.
I said it about Xaro and I will say it again: for me, this just smells of the production listening to complaints about the show being "too white" and its infuriating. What else will they change to pander to public opinion?
This comment...WOW. This is just vile. First of all, how dare she complain of "pandering," when the entertainment industry has been doing this to white people since cameras were invented? Erasure of POC's and replacing them with white characters is common place. 21 springs to mind or perhaps the adaptation of Anansi Boys that Neil Gaiman nixed because they wanted to have an all-white cast (there's one story where race is absolutely vital to the plot). Or how about having POC characters but having them played by white actors? Why hire a mixed-race actor to play Alexandre Dumas when you can just have Gerard Depardieu in black face and a curly wig? Or how about A Mighty Heart? Get an actress of the appropriate ethnicity? LOL NO, just black up Angelina Jolie and give her a perm, no one will mind. These productions both brazenly admitted that they did this because white actors were more bankable/appealing to the audience. THAT IS PANDERING. CASTING TWO BLACK ACTORS FOR SECONDARY, MINOR ROLES IS NOT. Jesus fucking christ, how fucking ignorant and insensitive can you get? Check your entitlement. And no, one Heimdall and one mixed-race Spiderman does not restore the balance.
Secondly, does she not consider how insulting this is to the actors in question? "Sorry guys, you're actors second, black people first. You will always be judged by the colour of your skin, first and foremost." How is this not racist again?
Its infuriating that the production listens, not that people want it. It is, however, silly to want to change a book just to have more ethnic diversity on TV. There's plenty of other avenues. If everything has to be equal and PC, then don't film books.
Linda, this isn't infuriating, your entitled, privileged whining is what's infuriating. You know, maybe they weren't hired because of ethnic diversity, maybe they were hired because they're good actors. Even if there is some positive discrimination going on here, what's more important? Staying true to some very sketchy world-building in a fictional setting or POC's being able to see people like them represented in the media. OH WAIT NO, SORRY, SILLY ME. BOOK PURISM IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE WORLD. THOSE SILLY POC'S SHOULD JUST STFU AND DEAL, RIGHT?
And it is also infuriating that racism always gets brought up.
OH LINDA, YOUR LIFE IS SO HARD. whitegirlproblems.com
I am against colour-blind casting for pre-existing source materials with clear descriptions of what characters should look like.
Yes, so clearly described that many fans didn't even realise they were white.
I am especially against both the above mention things if I feel there's any chance that the production is doing it to silence complaints about the world being too white or having too few women in powerful roles. Its the source material they signed on for, they should respect that as far as budget and other such constraints allow.
Or you could just accept the fact that it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, that there are more important considerations that *~purity of the material.~* Or, you could just accept that the books =//= the show, WHICH THE AUTHOR HIMSELF HAS DONE. Excercise that higher-order reasoning that humans beings are supposed to possess and separate the two media in your mind. Or you could just be a stubborn wank-stain and go off and have bouncing, bigoted babies with Dirk Benedict.
In the case of Xaro, I also think its ridiculous to change the character's height and build so extremely; I feel this will radically change the character
HOW DOES THAT AFFECT THE STORY? His height and build will have ZERO IMPACT on Dany's plot-line (or is she saying that burly men can't be gay? They have to be effeminate? Do I spy some bonus homophobia in here too?)All he does is sit around on cushions all day, trying to get Dany to marry him. That's it! That. is. IT. I'm sorry, I'm calling shenanigans here. I don't remember this much angst over Jorah being cast attractive rather than the fugly than he is in the books. Same goes for Tyrion. I don't remember anyone being "infuriated" over Syrio having a full (utterly awesome) head of hair rather than being bald as a coot. I don't recall hand-wringing over world building when the plump Roger Allam was cast to play the morbidly obese Illyrio. But as soon as two (Count 'em TWO, omg, they're taking over) black guys are cast? "OMG, THEY'RE NOT BEING TRUE TO THE BOOKS, WHARRRRGLEGARRRBLE, REVOLT, BLACK PEOPLE, IN MY FANTASY WORLD? NEVAR!"
I'm sorry, you can't expect to let all these other changes pass almost without comment, then piss and moan about a couple of black guys being cast without people suspecting that, like the Avenue Q Song, YOU'RE A LITTLE BIT RACIST.
I don't buy the world-building argument. There is no reason these cities, these ancient, cosmopolitan cities with strong trading links can't have people of many ethnicities residing in them. They can easily do this and keep the world internally consistent. And besides, George's world-building isn't as exact as all that. Get over yourselves, he doesn't have Tolkien levels of attention to detail going on here. There's plenty of wiggle-room.
Stop throwing your toys out of your pram.
Suck it up and deal.
Stop spewing racist shit.
Please don't come to TitanCon.
TL;DR version: Game of Thrones casts a grand total of two black actors for season two, co-owner of biggest fansite on the web loses her shit. I call racism.