Six Sleeps To Christmas!

Dec 19, 2009 15:53

It’s six sleeps to Christmas! And therefore, it is time to spread some holiday cheer, because I had a pretty great week and full excitement has just hit me this weekend. I have my pyjamas on, Christmas songs playing on YouTube, and it’s been snowing! I love Christmas time!

Firstly, the non-NCIS-related stuff, because I’ll get all rambly on that later! )

ncis episodes, life outside of lj, ncis general chatter

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karababe_64 December 22 2009, 13:52:48 UTC
If I can guess the bad guy then its bad, I never get it right so most of the time I don't even bother trying. I need to borrow some of your attitude, lately I've been focusing to much on the negaitives and they have started to overrule the positives. Oh yeah, Gibbs trying to talk to his father made me cringe, but in that good awkard way where you feel for the character and not the bad writing way. I think its a sign that he has really realised how important family is, and by extension the team. I just wish we knew why he's suddenly had this realisation.

McGee's kiss almost affected me as much as Tony's gorgeous smile did, and that's saying something. If they keep it up they may just manage to turn me into a McGee fan!
Tony's smile...*sigh* The whole moment was a wonderful peek of the Tony we all know but rarely see, who really cares about other people and will go to extraordinary lenghts to make them happy.

Crossing the line would certainly give MW the opportunity to display his amazing talents, it would almost be worth Tony going against Gibbs just for that (plus all the make up fic it would produce). Possibly in seasons 5 or 6 when Tony was feeling isolated from the team and more importantly Gibbs, then I could see him turning back to his father looking for the approval he's been striving after his whole life. But his relationship has improved with Gibbs and the team and so I don't think that there is enough motivation to override his common sense. Plus we all know Gibbs would stop it straight away ;-)

There's always an upside to everything And watching NCIS is definitly the best way to enjoy it.:D We are experiencing "typical Melbourne weather", in other words, one day it is 39C and the next it drops down to 23C. But overall it been getting warmer and I wouldn't be surprised if we get a run of hot days soon.

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little_ozzo December 22 2009, 14:39:04 UTC
I'm completely the same, I can never guess who the bad guy is. I make the excuse that I'm too focused on the characters or Tony's face, but really it's a total lack of observation skills! I think it's easy to get caught up in the negatives, especially when really we're pretty much watching the show really closely. So all the flaws are magnified along with the great stuff, and it's more upsetting to see because I think we really want to love our show! It might be one of the reasons that I loved the episode so much, because even though it was sometimes hard to watch Gibbs and his dad, it was so well done and affecting that for me, it made up for the plot failings! But I can be annoyingly Pollyanna, because there are flaws with the show and I'm awful for just ignoring them.

To get all boringly meta, and you can skip this paragraph, LOL, I've been trying to explain in my own head why the characters seem to be doing what they're doing at the moment, stemming from the beginning of S6. I think that was a big moment in that Gibbs seemed to kind of give up on getting his team back, and avoided getting close to his new team as much as possible, and then didn't really renew his closeness with his team when they returned. It seemed like he was actively trying to avoid another loss (after all the family parallels of S5) and his team were the closest people to him, so he detached himself from them as much as possible. And by doing that, Ziva, Tony and McGee felt abandoned and started freaking out, because they've always been bound to Gibbs and now he's being so weird! So McGee gets snappy and obnoxious, Tony gets unbelievably OTT, and Ziva forgets who the hell she's supposed to trust - or remembers she's not there just because Gibbs is awesome. I think it was all on Gibbs' shoulders, the weirdness, and he only started to revive himself a little when it got to SxSW - and Bounce and Knockout - and he suddenly seemed genuinely concerned that Tony might be planning to leave. And then he realised that being so detached would mean he lost them anyway, so he starting trying to reconnect, but it was a bit too late, in Ziva's case especially. And now, seeing what happened, he's actually risking getting close again. But obviously, that is just my interpretation, and it could easily be completely blown up by every new episode! For me, that's the story that I'm seeing that explains why they're acting the way they are, but it's subjective!

Sorry the long-winded ramble, this is what happens on my day off! ;-)

I cannot wait to see what MW is going to do, and also read all the fic that I'm pretty sure the episode is going to inspire - even if the episode isn't as amazing as I hope, the fic people will write will probably make up for it!

That's quite a temperature variation - at least we are safe in the knowledge that every day is going to freezing! :-)

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karababe_64 December 23 2009, 05:51:03 UTC
It certainly doesn't help that a few of the dominate members of the fandom (on LJ especially) have become rather negative recently and I think that is affecting me. We need more people like you to bring back the positives of the fandom.

I like that explaination, as long as it was :-) As the whump favourite we focus on how much Tony has been through the last few years. But I think that we forget how much it must affect the others to see him go through it and often not being to do anything to help him. That has to be hard and it has to take its toll. Plus all the things that Gibbs himself has gone through, especially reviving the memories of Shannon and Kelly, it does make sense that he had finally reached a point when he wanted to protect himself from being hurt anymore. And the fact that Gibbs was mentally absent would certainly explain the behaviour of the rest of the team.

You get used to it, and its certainly good to know that a hot day is generally followed by a cooler one which makes it more bearable. It's just annoying when trying to figure out what to wear because you are never sure how long the heat/cold is going to last so you have to dress for all weather! :-)

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little_ozzo December 23 2009, 10:10:53 UTC
My reasons for the positivity are often shallow (Tony Tony Tony), LOL, but I am always happy to provide squee! It does upset me when some of the people who are very well-known in fandom aren't pleased by what the show is doing, because then I don't want them to leave, and want the show to do something to make them stick with the fandom! Luckily, my main quibble with the show is that there really isn't enough shirtless Tony. ;-)

Rambliness is also something I can always be relied upon for. ;-P I talk just as much, and far too quickly, in RL - but in RL people have the advantage of being able to tell me to shut up! Tony is definitely the whump favourite, though, for which I am extremely glad. Tony-whump is my weakness, but I guess I like that explanation I've been playing with so much because it means I get to mine as much angst as possible for him (especially because I think the worst thing about S6 was that nobody really noticed how much Tony was freaking out, for ages, but I think - and this is possible my over-protective, Tony-is-more-awesome-than-anyone bias coming out - that Tony actually noticed that things were wrong far more acutely than anyone else) but it also means it explains why everyone else was acting weirdly too. I have no idea if the writers meant for it to come across like it did for me, or if it was an accident, but so far it's the explanation that makes the most sense to me. But again, it's all subjective. I'm going to roll with it but I love other explanations, too, like the one in Xanthe's latest genfic.

Ah, so you must have to layer very cleverly LOL! I am off work on yet another snow day, yay! It's all drifted today so I can't even try to see what the roads are like - which means a DiNozzo capfest again! :-)

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Warning: A McGee fan is in the house! (Part 1) schtroumph_c December 23 2009, 20:08:53 UTC
I have no idea if the writers meant for it to come across like it did for me, or if it was an accident,

You know, the best way to check is to have the point of view of someone who doesn't see Tony like that but has the same pedestal for another character, McGee. He's so often ignored when you could find some angst for him too! (I'm not a whumper, but these days, I'm wishing so hard to have him actually hurt on the show. I love the luck he has, but I want to see the team worried about him, and have Sean act something new. Give him his SWAK/Hiatus, SB!!!! Caged wasn't enough.)

Anyway! You like rambling? Prepare to be rambled to death : D

Young McGee is a good boy, army brat, he likes mysteries, going outside, and being a geek. Cost him a few friends, but whatever. He also wants to be like daddy when he'll grow up. ( I like starting explanation at the beginning *sheepish*)

Except it's going to be difficult joining the Navy when just stepping on a boat make you sick. (Did Daddy was disappointed? Did he show it? Did he convince him he doesn't care? I don't know.)

But he's going to be the closest possible of it, and he'll work hard for it. He's going to have a boyfriend who will hurt him the same week he'll have his car accident, and he swore off men foreeeeever except Tony's hotness is bringing his bisexuality back He's going to work his strength in computers and sciences, and mix his love for mysteries and detective novel, and he's going to be a NCIS agent! (Notice how he's the only one who started this way in the team, Gibbs = Marine, Tony = Baltimore, Kate = Secret Service, Ziva = Mossad.)

And look how Lady Luck rewards him! Sure, the body almost made him sick, and he probably looks ridiculous, but he met the famous Gibbs! And Abby looks nice, and DiNozzo…He's still not sure what he think of him, but it's mostly good. He doesn’t need to know the tattoo always been there. It was a very well considered decision, took weeks to do it, so it wasn't an urge. So technically, he didn't lie.

And somehow, he's always coming back to them, and he did whatever paperwork he needs to do to finally become a field agent and it's even better! He's accepted, and Gibbs took him, and he'll see Abby more often, and okay, Tony too. Kate is okay.

He's tired of being on the receiving end of Tony's jokes, and do the horrible/smelly/ tiring work he's giving to him as 'Senior Field Agent and your mentor!' but some days, he's not too bad, and fine, it's hilarious when he's not the target of the pranks. They have the same stupid humour! Same love of bad puns! And okay, he's learning stuff, things he missed when he was younger, too busy studying, stuff Gibbs doesn't tell him, and he can answer back without feeling like the very aggravated nuns he knew will tell him off for being impolite. In two, three years, he'll probably stop calling him Probie. Just have to be patient.

And Tony got the plague. From the letter Tim was going to open. And he's feeling guilty, and scared, and he's actually missing him and he said what to the nurses?

And then Kate dies. When he was supposed to die in her place. And things are different. Tony changed and still manages to stay the same. Some days he can't wait to have him out of sight, some days he's happy to have him here. And he's still Probie.

And then Gibbs leaves. And yes, it's not fun, and Abby is more strange than usual, but he likes Tony as boss (oh Bounce, how I hate your retconning of that point), he likes calling him Boss, he loves the campfires, his new wardrobe, and best of all? He's not the Probie anymore. Even better he's the Senior Field Agent. And it feels good. Did wonders on his confidence too. He even dared trying to sell his book.

And one day? Tony leave for his conference, and he is in charge! Okay, it's just one or two week, but Tony trusted him enough to let him in charge!

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Re: Warning: A McGee fan is in the house! (Part 1) little_ozzo December 23 2009, 21:55:01 UTC
Yay! McGee chatter, brilliant - and rambling, too - I love a long discussion! :-D (Apologies in advance for my typical lack of coherence!)

Angst and injury-wise, for Tony, we get an awful lot of fan service. Tony is pretty much a dream of a character for me, and I love almost all of his storylines. I totally agree that Sean Murray and McGee should be given more to do - he's there just as much as the other three agents, but gets the storyline quota of Ducky and Abby. Again, I have no idea what the writers plan or think, LOL, but if I had to hazard a guess it would be that he doesn't get as many big storylines as Gibbs, Tony and Ziva (although I think she can be fairly sidelined, too, aside from the recent arc) is that with Gibbs there, and Tony as senior agent, there isn't a lot of room for change. So he can develop as a character, but maybe finding things for him to do in a big way is difficult because their positions in the team hierarchy are so static?

The beginning is good, I'm fascinated by how McGee grew up and if he feels like he has to prove himself to his father - or find someone else to prove himself to! It's not been explained to us why he wanted so badly to be a field agent, on the best team in NCIS, but I've always thought it takes some real determination, and/or a need for approval or to follow someone, to work for Gibbs. But at the same time, I think McGee in many ways is the one who needs Gibbs' approval the least, he's a little healthier than that, but he also seems really ambitious. The point you make about him being the only one on the team to have been NCIS from the start of his career? This is why I love the idea of him eventually becoming director. But again, to do that on the show realistically, he'd have to be transferring around to higher positions.

Also, how interesting is it that at this stage in the show, McGee is approaching the level of experience that Tony would have had just before the show itself started, give or take, like, a year? And to be fair, DiNozzo seemed an awful lot more happy-go-lucky back then than he does now, IMO.

So yeah, he joins this team, and he seems to be trying really hard to learn, and to avoid Gibbs' wrath and Tony's jock-hazing and teasing. When they get on great (Tony and Tim) it's so much fun, but Tony does have a habit of turning on him and pulling rank - which, he is higher up in rank and I think it's a very normal, male kind of behaviour to do that. I love that part about him expecting Tony to stop calling him Probie eventually, because it will never happen, and I think at first that obviously rankled him, though now in S7 he seems totally okay with the nickname, I think.

But, here's the thing, when Gibbs leaves, it's horrible for the team in one way, obviously, but it leads to a natural progression. Tony gets a promotion, and McGee gets a promotion - to senior field agent, which is a huge step up from the most junior officer on the team (I'm discounting Ziva because she was still a liaison, here, and she'd probably smack anyone who called her junior at that time). So far, everything has been going to plan, right? McGee started out as a kind of tech guy in Norfolk, then he got the field promotion, where yeah, he had to do the crappy work - but that's all part of the job. Nobody didn't have to do that in their first years. The next promotion, when Gibbs left, was natural, it was all on course and made sense and he was getting rewarded for his improvement and development of his skills. Everything is a-okay, in the grand scheme of things and excepting seeing Kate, which really was a part of the learning process too, right up until BAM! Gibbs comes back.

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Re: Warning: A McGee fan is in the house! (Part 1) schtroumph_c December 29 2009, 20:18:31 UTC
Well, he's the geek, he's not as angsty and not classically cute/hot as the others. It's shallow, but I'm pretty sure it plays on him being ignored from the press and the writers.

Also, how interesting is it that at this stage in the show, McGee is approaching the level of experience that Tony would have had just before the show itself started, give or take, like, a year? And to be fair, DiNozzo seemed an awful lot more happy-go-lucky back then than he does now, IMO.

I hope they point that in the show, just to have a little moment from Tony or Gibbs that Baby grew up, readjust the view. Like when your kid is starting to drive when he was still in diaper yesterday. Or McGee having a work opportunity for a week or two and Tony pushing him to accept and fretting during his absence, calling him as often as possible (he takes turns with Abby).

I totally agree about him needing the least Gibbs's approbation. It showed in Twisted Sister. Everybody calls Gibbs when things goes wrong, but he wanted to do it only because it was the rules, and was easily convinced to lie to Gibbs.

Gibbs is clearly noted as Boss/Superior for him, whereas he's Boss/Father Figure/Whatever for the others. If someone breaks away from the box, it's Tony. He's the one who took care of him when he first killed, and I'm pretty sure McGee is learning a lot from him, copying some of his techniques (telling the girl to take the phone from his pocket, telling about the Secret Santa, maybe his clothes...). Tony is for McGee what Gibbs is for Tony and what Franks is for Gibbs. Except Franks and Gibbs probably didn't have slashy moments.

If McGee had to choose, he'll go with his mentor. Like (okay, it's a small example, but there weren't a big situation with a camp to choose, except with Tony/Ziva/Rivkin, and he chose Tony) with the new order in the van when Gibbs came back, the changes Tony made, for the better.

Which reminds me that for someone who is bad at lying and who doesn't take this way unless he has to, McGee often lied to Gibbs. Smaller than Tony and Ziva, who all feel bad about it, true, but still. McGee hid Abby's implication in Legend, when he was surprised they found Rivkin's identity so fast, and tried to hid Tony's actions when he wanted to know why Ziva was leaving for Israel in the beginning of the season.

I think in his mind, his loyalty (ignoring the law) goes Abby/Sarah, then Tony, then Gibbs and Ziva.

So the really fun scene to see wouldn't be choosing between Tony and Gibbs, but between Abby and Tony. They are those he clicked with since the first day, who know him best and hug him the most :D. For all his alliances with Ziva against Tony (who are probably a Probies Alliance vs Senior, just for fun), I'm pretty sure his favorites persons in the team are Tony and Abby (and it's why they're my OT3. The end of Caged pleased me a lot on this front). Choosing between them would be really hard for McGee.

I love that part about him expecting Tony to stop calling him Probie eventually, because it will never happen, and I think at first that obviously rankled him, though now in S7 he seems totally okay with the nickname, I think.

Gibbs's remark of Franks still calling him Probie really hit him. He didn't side with Ziva when she had a problem with being called Probie, and she included McGee on why they didn't deserve it anymore. I think he really understands it's an affectionate nickname (and why I hope Probette stays, Probie is for McGee. It sounds wrong otherwise.). He only has a problem when it used to denigrate him.

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Re: Warning: A McGee fan is in the house! (Part 1) little_ozzo December 29 2009, 22:46:33 UTC
I absolutely hate agreeing with you - not because you're wrong in any way, but because you're right and it's true: I think he isn't put front and centre because the conventionally hot ones are always put first by the show writers and producers et al. I think McGee's hot, but I have to admit the foundation of my love for Tony is based on his stupidly perfect features. I'm a sucker for the conventionally, symmetrically attractive guy. But I think McGee's such a hottie, and awesome, too, and shouldn't be limited in the way that he sometimes is.

I'd love to see him have like, a really particular strength. I know he's the techno-expert (techspert?) and he's ace at that, but he was also pretty effective in the couple of interrogations he has done - I loved him reading out the penalties in that dry, terrifying manner. That could work on so many people! But he could also transfer his skills to being very knowledgeable about, say, bullet trajectory. I could really imagine him going on courses to further his career, too. I'd like to see more of him in MTAC, too, building up contacts - because he is totally my ideal future Director.

I love that he didn't go to Gibbs in Twisted Sister. I think it was actually really sensible of him, too, and illustrated the way that Gibbs is not the be-all-and-end-all for him. Because in the three years he'd been with the team fully at that point, Gibbs had already fucked off once and hadn't really given him the greatest grounding for trust - I think it was Gibbs' flaw there, expecting his team to trust him blindly even when he hasn't really given them reason to do so. Tony has definitely been there for McGee in a more-than-just-Superior sense, and the slash is to die for. But yes, Franks/Gibbs? Just not seeing it, at all. Very, very rare pairing! ;-)

I'd completely agree with that chain of loyalty - although I also think that he's very morally sound, and would also go against one of those further up if he really thought they were in the wrong. McGee is really not the type to follow blindly, when it comes down to it. He and Tony would be the ones I'd want at my back the most.

It's funny, because whenever I try and write McGee in fic, I have a total weakness for putting him in situations where he kind of quietly gives Gibbs a little smackdown, or stands up to him. Or even just reminds Gibbs that he's smart, and he's not as easily manipulated as I think Ziva and Tony sometimes allow themselves to be by him. (Don't get me wrong, I love Gibbs, LOL, I just think he's a psycho with a major hero and martyr-complex!)

Oh, that'd be such a hard choice for him to make, between Abby and Tony. I genuinely think he'd go with the morally sound choice, because McGee's super-compassionate, but he's also very logical. That's another thing I'd like to see him do more of - organising tactical, larger-scale operations, say in a hostage situation or whatever. I think that could be a real strength of his, distributing people and calling shots.

I like the Probette nickname a lot - that seemed vaguely more affectionate towards Ziva, whereas Probie felt wrong because, well, it's McGee! But also, when he used Probie with her, it seemed a little barbed. McGee looked hilariously unbothered when Ziva kicked off about the use of Probie! So cute. I need to check, but it seemed like even in S5 and S6, when Tony did pull out the Probie nickname in an obnoxious, non-affectionate way to McGee, Tim kind of seemed to roll his eyes, like he understood Tony was being defensive and bringing out a word which used to sting, but doesn't anymore. I didn’t explain that very well, but it was like he didn’t take offence, even though maybe in the past he would have - he thinks Tony’s being an idiot, using the nickname in that rank--pulling way he does, when Gibbs ahs explained that it’s affectionate. So he doesn’t actually call Tony on it, showing remarkable tolerance! Again, cute!

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Warning: A McGee fan is in the house! (Part 2) schtroumph_c December 23 2009, 20:09:59 UTC
And Gibbs is back, and he's down the ladder. Tony trusted him enough to take his place as Boss, and now, he's still the probie, and his favourite target, and it's like it never happened. In short, it sucks. But, hey, it's still okay. Some good days. And money. And a sister who may have kill someone, and finding where his loyalty are. Her, before Gibbs. Family, before the rules. But Gibbs understands.

And then someone use his book, his favourite hobby for years, to kill. Abby was in danger because of him, and I'm sure he think about it every time he sit in front of his typewriter.

Then, it's La Grenouille, and Tony is not dead, thank you very much, so stop telling that Ziva. It's a new Tony, one he doesn't know very well, one who… pranks him, insult him, and have fun with him, and he'll forget his vertigo for him, and things are like usual.

And then, season 6. The team is broke off. Ziva is back in Israel, doing her work. Tony is Agent Afloat. Still a field agent, in a way. Tim? Has his own team. Yeah! In the basement, with the computers. Sucks.

He wanted to be a field agent. Okay, he can be the computer guy, he understands why, but at least, with Gibbs, he still had the opportunity to do some actual field work. He doesn't even have that anymore. I know Tony was talking about himself in Agent Afloat, but he was right, so maybe he was also talking about Tim, correctly guessing his problems. He even lost some knowledge.

He can't really have a problem with interrogation if Gibbs rarely sends him outside the building sometimes. But it's assumed it's not his favourite part (from Ziva's scoffing).

Other problem, McGee was surprised to see Gibbs. Like if it was the first time in months. He's just a few levels down, so how can Gibbs dare make some remarks about him following Vance's orders instead of going with the team when Gibbs didn't care?

How long the situation would have last if Abby didn't push? He's tempted to tell him to put his 'team first' elsewhere but doesn't. And forget about it pretty fast, because he's back with the team, and Ziva is here, and Tony, and he's…still the probie behind a computer.

But, no, not this time. He's going to prove them he's capable, and can do more than clicking (he told Abby he doesn't want to be their personal Google). And the really interesting thing here is that he doesn't want some recognition from Vance or Gibbs, his actual bosses, but from Tony, who doesn't give it. Not like he want to.

So he's using his old habits from his scout days, and he's crushed when he failed, and so happy when Tony showed him (with a joke) that he was right. And hey, he has another degree than his MIT! He can replace Abby! Except he forgot some lessons, and he's back behind a computer.

And Tony continues to questions his capacities as investigator. He doesn't know anymore when he's joking, when he's serious, and it's starting to hurt, and he's not going to beg for it like he watched Tony do with Gibbs. He won't care. No really, he doesn't care. See how much he doesn't care?

But if Tony insists to hurt him, he'll hurt him more. He's mocking him and thinking he's scared of gore? Hit with Jeanne. He's shocked Gibbs chose McGee to go to LA, like he didn't deserve it? Hit with his link with Gibbs.

Of course, he forgot to send the memo to Tony that he doesn't find this kind of banter fun anymore, so Tony can't know he's hurting him. Even in season 7, I'm not sure if Tony's conscious of Tim being tired of this part of their relationship, when Tony was sincerely confused with "Mocking me publicly." "But I do it all the time!".

Now, he could do some crazy thing like talking about it, but the guy made fun of him for using lotion. He'll mock him for talking about his feelings, and it's what he's trying to avoid.

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Re: Warning: A McGee fan is in the house! (Part 2) little_ozzo December 23 2009, 22:38:01 UTC
Gibbs comes back, and suddenly Tim gets demoted. This is not how things are supposed to go. This is a threat to the career he has chosen, and worked so hard for, and loves even though it's really fucking hard, sometimes. And Tony, even though he's been a good boss who trusted him, was still annoying and obnoxious because, well, that's Tony, and now he's been demoted too and who does he lash out at? Tim. It's always Tim he lashes out at, and I think that's so interesting, because maybe Tim is the only one he can snap at? Gibbs is senior, and in the three main instances where I've thought Tony was out of line with Tim (Kate, Gibbs' margarita safari and return, and Jenny), Gibbs has been hurting too, so that puts him out of the firing line. Kate and Ziva are women, and could both kick Tony's ass, so he's left with McGee to snap at. Which is crap for McGee, because Tony, over those four months, has become the person he turns to and looks up to the most. He deals with it, because he loves his job and these people and he is pleased to have Gibbs back, just not 100% because it fucks things up. That's Gibbs.

God, the book and the fact that it was indirectly to blame for the guy who tried to hurt Abby - he must feel so horribly guilty about that, even though he's not really at fault at all. He can't prevent psycho jackasses from existing.

So, La Grenouille, he's been lied to, for a year, by the guy he now seems to trust more than he trusts Gibbs, IMO. He trusted Tony even while Tony drove him crazy, because Tony stayed. And not only that, but it's got to feel a little unfair. Tony got demoted too, but he's still senior field agent. McGee goes back to Probie, and it's unfair because Tony, half the time, doesn't seem to have the same drive that McGee does, he doesn't even try to be good enough to have his own team, but he gets to be Gibbs right-hand-man, and he gets the cool undercover op. And I have to say, I do think McGee thinks it's cool, although when he sees Tony's face with the plasma screens he realises that coolness comes at a massive price. But he maybe still wants to pay it.

Because McGee is still relatively inexperienced compared to everyone else on the team, which I think plays a part in the hopefulness he brings, with not believing Tony is dead at the start of S5, and not believing Ziva is at the start of S7.

I think his love of field work is a huge part of his character. He knows he's good with computers, that's his comfort zone, but he's chosen to go into the field and essentially, do something that doesn't come as naturally to him as I think it does Gibbs and Tony. Maybe that's to do with different levels of experience and different backgrounds, but I think that McGee isn't naturally instinctive when it comes to field work. He's great at it, because he works hard to be good at it.

When Gibbs lets them go, at the end of S6 - and McGee had nothing to do what was going on, he was on the outside again, and that's something I'll talk about in the next comment - he gets demoted again, really. It’s not really a demotion, but it's almost a punishment because he's not doing what he wants to do anymore, and Gibbs isn't lifting a finger to help him come back.

This is why I like the detached-Gibbs S6 theory that I have, because it fits that he doesn't go and see McGee. McGee's without his team, and when they finally do all get back together, he's stillthe probie and worse still, Ziva and Gibbs are barely in the room even when they're physically present, and Tony's being so weird; his humour's gone way overboard and he seems to be acting like he used to before Kate. McGee has done nothing wrong, and it's not fair that his career is being put on hold and he's only getting respect from the slightly-suspect Director just because everyone else around him is fucked up.

So he gets a bit snappy, and cocky - and I think that's canon, even though I love McGee, and I love it because it fits, he deserves to be pissed off - because he is way above probie-level, and he doesn't deserve the shit he‘s getting. I do think McGee doesn’t choose his snappy comebacks very well - he waits and waits until he suddenly hits on the worst thing he could snap about, which then makes him look worse even though he's not.

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Re: Warning: A McGee fan is in the house! (Part 2) schtroumph_c December 29 2009, 20:21:39 UTC
His only chances of leading while staying in the team are if Gibbs and Tony can't do it, and it would only means bad things. There must be a little bit of embarrassment or awkwardness that every good thing happening to him is linked to something bad (he escaped Ari's bullet, Kate is killed, he has the envelope in his hand, Tony is the one with the plague, his advancements are all due to someone close leaving them, his best work alone was because a mother killed someone to protect her daughter and he was a hostage in jail.)

Until now, he avoided pointing to Ziva he was superior to her, but I'd like to see that happen. Like Tony having a mini break down during an undercover mission, and he and Gibbs doing what necessary as a diversion to give him time to get back to work in a few minutes. I can see Ziva trying to go inside and play any role who will give Tony some time to catch himself and Tim telling her to stay in the van and let him do it, because it's something Gibbs and he did already during the summer, or something.

To see how Ziva'll react (surprised, interested, amused, ticked off?), and because McGee is hot when he's in command mode.

And Tony, even though he's been a good boss who trusted him, was still annoying and obnoxious because, well, that's Tony, and now he's been demoted too and who does he lash out at? Tim. It's always Tim he lashes out at, and I think that's so interesting, because maybe Tim is the only one he can snap at?

And while I think they sometimes goes too far (and any fans of one or the other would say always), the reverse is true. McGee has a snappy, snarky side he slowly let out during the years, and he only let it go at Tony, he's himself with him (Like with his hero detective who faked a murder, he had a good line against Tony, but didn't dare repeat it, only went with 'I'm not the idiot'. That completely changed).

McGee was raised as a gentleman, and a gentleman doesn't hurt a woman. Even with that, he wouldn't dare hurting Abby, even when he has good reason to be furious against her (Jethro and risking his job. Good thing he doesn't keep a grudge). I think he's a little scared of Ziva (I doesn't want to credit people whining that you can't trust Ziva anymore, but she tend to use threat and violence easily) and I don't think he'll dare pushing it with Gibbs. Even if it would be fun to see.

Tony is the safest option, he can take it. They're each other's emotional punching bag, and seeing how they rarely tell the other to stop it because he's going too far and let the other a lot of liberty, I think they're conscious of it, they accept it.

What's the longest they stayed furious to each other? They forgive and forget pretty fast, a gift they don't give to the others. Except Abby, but she's an exception. She can kill them without letting any evidence, after all.

And with who else can they have a fight (or sex, whatever happened in Stakeout :D) just to vent frustrations, without any consequence later?

So he gets a bit snappy, and cocky - and I think that's canon, even though I love McGee, and I love it because it fits, he deserves to be pissed off - because he is way above probie-level, and he doesn't deserve the shit he‘s getting. I do think McGee doesn’t choose his snappy comebacks very well - he waits and waits until he suddenly hits on the worst thing he could snap about, which then makes him look worse even though he's not.

It's a common trait to the calm people. They take it without answering, cumulate all, and let it all go against whoever used the last straw. And with the relationship Tony and he have, it always fall on Tony.

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Re: Warning: A McGee fan is in the house! (Part 2) little_ozzo December 29 2009, 23:04:33 UTC
That's so true, I hadn't even thought of that! Every single one of McGee's career advancements have been under the shadow of something horrific happening to the team - and that's just awful. I think that'd go even further to supporting the idea that he does feel like he has something to prove. I speculate a lot on that, and tend to characterise it as feeling like maybe he's let someone like his father (I'm a sucker for daddy issues!) down in his past, but I think he also likes to prove to himself that he's good at his job in his own right, without having any of his achievements blighted by negative events at the same time, or subsequent demotions.

I'd like to see that too - I'd totally read that fic or watch that episode. I think in the later half of this season, that would make amazing sense, too - I think at the moment he's unbelievably happy she's alive, and back at NCIS, but it would be great to see him exert some authority. I'd be really interested to see how Ziva would react - I'm a Ziva fan, but I would completely agree with you that she's very quick to use threats of violence to benefit herself and intimidate others. It'd be pretty cool to see McGee pull her up on that. If McGee does have to get shunted to the sidelines a little, like we were saying in the number 1 thread, then it would actually make sense for him to have a bit more perspective on how the others in the team are acting because he's watching, not always completely involved.

(On a complete side-note, I think it'd be very good to have Ziva called on her acceptance back into the team, once or twice. I'm overjoyed she's back, and like her a lot, but it'd be great for her to have to reassess whether she's slipping back into old patterns of behaviour that she seems to want to leave behind but isn't always aware that she's not. It might ingratiate her a little more to non-Ziva fans, too.)

I actually really like the idea that Tim and Tony snap the hardest at one another, mostly because I got told once, and it stuck with me, that people who can have major arguments with one another, but forget them and move on, are often extremely close and trusting. I was just watching Forced Entry as early as S2, and McGee and Tony have quite a heated argument in that, but two seconds later, Tony reaches over and takes a pen out of Tim's pocket, and there's no flinch at all. It's very trusting, and instantly forgotten, and there's something almost familial about that. And I do mean a little bit brotherly, despite my slash preferences, LOL, because I think any NCIS relationship within the team would be vaguely incestuous. It makes the pairings more interesting!

I bet their make-up sex is totally fucking hot. I would go so far to think they might even have hilarious argument sex, too, though never with hitting.

And yeah, Tony is always going to be the recipient of Tim's worst comments, and vice versa, because I just don't think they could do that with anyone else on the team. Neither of them would hurt Abby or Ducky like that, and Ziva and Gibbs are really quite frightening. ;-P

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Warning: A McGee fan is in the house! (Part 3) schtroumph_c December 23 2009, 20:11:48 UTC
Then, Rivkin/Tony/Ziva. He has absolutely no hesitation about his position here. He's on Tony's side, and think Ziva will be too, except she's not, and she's still in Israel, and is not coming back.

And like with Gibbs's hiatus retirement holidays, he beneficing of it. It's just the two of them, now, with Gibbs being strange about something, probably Ziva, and Tony is down, and Abby too, and his place is more important. Even better, with Tony's broken arm, most of the field work is down to him.

He's not just the computer guy, and Tony is finally treating him as an actual agent. An equal. Even calls him Tim! And we welcome the new McGee. Who may have felt some guilt at his joy coming from so many problems and Ziva's departure, and then, her death. Maybe he feel some anger to Ziva for not being behind Tony like he expected it, but buried it when she came back, because he's happy she's alive, and here, and could we stop changing every thing, now?

But it looks like he's back doing more computer stuff than field work, and if the writers actually planed it, how will he react?

(I'm waiting for the 150th episode for a totally different reason than every one else, and a completely shallow and slashy, Tony/McGee one, and possibly just a wardrobe mistake.)

BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Feel the rambling! Feeeeeeel!!!

(Short version, I agree with the breaking of the team did more damages than what we saw, and everyone dealt their own, maybe bad, way, and it's one McGee point of view. Does it mean it was voluntary from the writers? Will there be a follow up? Some people say Tony and McGee are different when Ziva is with them, is it true? Does it have a point? Is my short version going to turn in another rambling? I have bags to prepare for family reunion, so no. But still.)

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Re: Warning: A McGee fan is in the house! (Part 3) little_ozzo December 23 2009, 22:52:43 UTC
I have to say I don't think Tony has ever questioned McGee's capabilities as an investigator. He makes him do the crappy jobs he doesn't want, and he teases him about lotion (which isn't particularly harsh or surprising, really, I don't think) and things like that, but he has consistently given McGee credit where credit is due from the start. I'd maybe consider that it might feel like Tony does that, to McGee, because he rags on him about just about everything else, but really he's pretty honest when he talks about McGee's agent skills.

I think that in S6, one of the worst things was that all of them forgot to notice what was going on with at least one other person in the team. Gibbs didn’t notice Ziva and McGee's behaviour at all, and only started noticing Tony’s towards the end of the season (again, IMO), Tony didn’t notice that McGee really wasn’t having fun with him anymore, and I think Ziva was so wrapped up in her own torn feelings she could barely notice anything except Gibbs' apparent rejection.

And yeah, he's not going to try to talk to Tony about it, because the way Tony's acting right now, there's no way he'd risk getting shot down. From my Tony-pedestal, LOL, I'd actually argue that if Tony realised how much he was hurting McGee, he'd stop, because I think Tony has a major thing about nothurting the people he cares about, and McGee is definitely one of those people.

I totally hadn't thought about McGee having to take on the bulk of the work after they came back from Israel, and that makes a lot of sense - it might also explain why McGee seems so much happier and more confident in himself in S7. There's an improved relationship between him and Tony - he seems a lot more tolerant of Tony's occasionally biting humour - almost like he sees through the bullshit more. (Or like maybe they did finally talk, and totally started sleeping together. ;-P) Plus I think Tony's moved into being gently humorous now, though still insulting because he will always be a frat boy, and Tim will always be the one he snaps at the most (but that can be a good thing, too), but his remarks to Tim are nothing compared to the muted venom he's throwing at Ziva.

I was going to say something about McGee being a little on the sidelines, in the last comment - like, he's always been great, totally reliable, but never really the source of big trouble for the team. There was his book, and his sister, but he's never caused an international incident like with the Rivkin situation, nor has he had a Director die on his watch. (This is a good thing, but good can be unfulfilling.) He's always been very much there to support the team, but in all truth, he hasn't dealt with some of the things they've been through directly. If I were in his shoes, even though the rest of the team are more fucked up because of stuff they've done, I'd still feel a little peripheral to the real action, and want a piece of it. It's natural. But maybe he's more okay with doing the stuff he knows he's great at this year, because the fallout from first Gibbs' abandonment, and Ziva's subsequent half-betrayal, was screwier than anything else he's seen before, and maybe it is,/i> too big a price to pay. Does that make any sense, LOL?!

OMG, are they sharing clothes?!?! That'd be AMAZING!

So, okay, I saw your ramble and raised you yet more rambling! It's fab to get a response from someone who can tell me, hopefully, that I've forgotten to take out my Tony-rose-tinted contacts! But the thing I think is that yeah, Tony can be a dick, and he's been freaking out and in S6 confused McGee no end, but McGee wasn’t on the same wavelength, either. They were all so screwed up by the end of S5/start of S6. Whether I’m reading way too far into what I’m shown, I don't know. (Probably!) I have no idea if Tony and McGee as a twosome are different with Ziva, but I'm positive that Tony is very different with Ziva than he is with McGee.

Have a lovely family reunion, and a Merry Christmas/other festive holiday! :-)

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Re: Warning: A McGee fan is in the house! (Part 3) schtroumph_c December 23 2009, 23:03:54 UTC
OMG, are they sharing clothes?!?! That'd be AMAZING!

Just a quick answer before leaving, I'll let a longer one later, but look at this photo.

Is the coat familiar to you? :D

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Re: Warning: A McGee fan is in the house! (Part 3) little_ozzo December 24 2009, 00:02:14 UTC
They ARE sharing clothes! I - just - I have no words. I really, really hope this continues. Thank you!!! :-D

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