Beware! Tony-centric rambling, ravings, swoonings and squeeings behind the cut, along with 27 poorly cut and coloured caps!
tejas, I swear I'm totally re-writing as well. I just got distracted by Tony's nose and hair. Again. ;-)
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7x05 - Code of Conduct )
The lack of whump was disappointing (and yeah, I could never really get too annoyed at Franks in Faking It because Gibbs checking Tony's eye is possibly the cutest thing I've seen on my TV, total fanservice), but there was definitely opportunity for missing scene or tag fic if anyone did want to write it. There's not been a lot of fic recently, although with only recently joining fandom I'm not sure how it comapres to other years - is fanfic always slow at the start of a season because people are waiting to see what's happening, where the characters are at?
As someone not from an immigrant background, but from an area where racism is unfortunately fairly common, his attitude does kind of make sense given that he's from a privileged upbringing where presumably - and this is fanon I think but isn't inauthentic - Tony was surrounded by servants who were mostly immigrants, and that could colour his present attitude. There was another episode a while back where I didn't quite understand the depth of his arguments about immigration, either. But given that he has also shown that he can be very sensitive and compassionate, I think that those instances he has shown that prejudice have mostly been as deliberate attempts to rile and offend, like he did with Gidon in 7x04. And like you say, I think in this episode, it was very much just about annoying Ziva. Luckily, I find him being annoying pretty adorable!
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I know someone who is going to try and write a AU tag with some Gibbs comfort this weekend so hopefully she'll be able to come up with something. It has definitly slowed down, especially on LJ, at least the good stuff. I can't really remember what it was like at the same time previous seasons but even the longer fics have dried up. There have been episodes this season that I'm surprised that we haven't gotten tags for, especially from the Tony!whumpers. I've bookmarked very little lately. I also noticed a lack of reviews for this ep, which isn't a good sign.
I guess that could be the reason but my personal fanon is that he got on well with servants and they acted as an escape from his father. Was that in season 5? I think that was the first time that he showed such feelings and I had mostly put it down to bad writing and ignored it. The other time it was when he was talking to Ziva too so it's quite possible that he does it to annoy her.
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Brilliant, looking forward to that. Being very lazy and not writing it for myself, except indulgent snippets in my head. Hopefully, there'll suddenly be a brilliant episode that lots of people love and the fic will just take off - and isn't Big Bang coming up? But yeah, I have noticed a bit of a lack of some good Tony!whump. Hopefully we'll have some pop up canonically. They are quite good at putting Tony in peril. I noticed the lack of reviews, too, which makes me sad because I love reading reviews. I may do a couple of Tony caps just for the banter. But even on the comm discussion posts, there were very few comments.
I love that fanon that he got on well with the servants too, but I suppose he could do that and still choose to tackle people in that way occasionally - or at least have been exposed to that kind of attitude from his family and their friends. I've never thought of him as particularly racist, just willing to fall back on it as an annoyance technique? I don't know. Obviously, being the Tony-defender that I am, I'd probably do anything to justify/re-interpret his remakrs if I disagreed with them! ;-) I definitely think he uses it to annoy Ziva, though - and I also think it's possible to have teasing banter over race, as well, if it's gentle and accepted by both person. Ziva certainly didn't seem to take any more offence at his rambling than she does at any of his comments. Looking back, I'm actually going to rewatch, because he's not actually racist, I think, more anti-immigrant, and vaguely so at that, so I'm not entirely sure I'm even on the right track!
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Forgotten about Big Bang, hopefully that will bring some great fic. I'm also concerned about some of the decnt fic writers on ff.net who seemed to have stopped writing. I used to get an average of 6-8 alerts a day, now I'm struggle to get 2-3. Hopefully that brilliant ep comes before people stop watching altogether.
Anti-immigrant makes more sense, and I can certainly understand his frustrations if that if the case. But. yeah I agree that it is most likely an annoyance technique or bad writing that can be explained away as that. If he was truely racist we would see it more often than 3 times in 3 seasons. Or it could be that his fragile emotional state has caused him to become much more cynical and focusing on the negaitives of things and that is why we are seeing this develop now.
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I think two instances stand out for me with Gibbs - one is back in S1, where the suspect and his dog are in the caravan and Gibbs, despite being covered, just fires his gun right at the fuel tank and blows the guy up. That seemed like fairly excessive force to me, though I think the moment was intended as humour. And the other was him breaking the chain of evidence and falsifying it. It was with good intentions, and to protect someone, but it struck me as unbelievably unprofessional - I'm not sure Tony would do that, you know? I like that Gibbs does those things, though, and I'd agree he's not nearly so trigger-happy/bordering-on-the-batshit-insane as Franks!
Let's just hope everyone's out working on really long, plotty, satisfying fic?! I'm hoping it's just a lull due to the time of year, etc., because ratings don't seem to be being affected too badly, though of course only a small percentage of viewers are in the fandom as such.
It especially makes sense if he's actually a fan of Limbaugh and presumably conservative, then, although he never actually states his preference. And with Tony, it's hard to tell what he means or if he's actually a supporter of what comes out of his mouth. I've always thought that one of his talents at being a cop is to present his own argument, then argue against it, if that makes sense, like, he can really explore people's views and opinions to see where they're coming from, apart from in a few circumstances. And in a work instance, choose his favourite suspect, then also come up with reasons why it might not be them.
I haven't decided how I'm reading his emotional state this season so far yet - at the moment, I'm actually leaning towards him feeling a lot more positive now than he seemed to be in S6 and the itnerim before this season, or at least before 7x01. But then there's that look at the end of 7x01, so there's defintiely something needing to be explored. He's so complicated.
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The explosion might have been overkill but I don't think they would have gotten out of the situation without killing the guy. I have to disagree about Tony not doing something like that, he has often broke into a place without havig a search warrant and he does bend and ignore the rules when it is for the greater good.
It's the make up of the fandom I'm worried about. A lot of the older, mature fans who know how to write great fic are leaving and younger fans who don't know how to use spell check or thing OOC is cool are replacing them. There are exceptions of cause (such as yourself) but that's the general trend I'm noticing especially in terms of fic.
He is very good at seeing different sides to things and I think that is why I think being racist or even just anti-immigrant is wrong for him. Because he should be able to see the other side and in countires such as the US (and Australia) while you may get frustrated at some of the problems immigrants cause you also have to realise that the whole history of the country is based around immigrantion and starting a new life. (sorry to get all political on you :-) And I think that someone like him would be able to see it and accept it.
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Yeah, I totally agree that Tony will break and bend some rules in order to get a case solved, like breaking and entering and working on hunches without warrants, but whereas I think Tony has some lines he would never, ever cross, Gibbs doesn't even know some of those lines exist, if that makes more sense? Gibbs is way more of a liability than Tony, I think - which works for him.
Being new, I'm obviously nowhere near as aware of what's going on, but I've definitely already seen people who are long-term fans really losing heart with the series, and it's so sad to see. I hope there's a revival, anyway, because there really is an awful lot of very, very good fic around and I'd hate to see those authors lose interest. As for my fic, and other newer, younger fans', hopefully spellcheck and con crit will batter us into shape!
Get as political as you like - I've been woefully ignorant of politics for years, which is inexcusable, so I'm totally still figuring out my opinions etc. I don't agree with the angle they're taking with Tony's ... whatever attitude it is, partly because I don't really understand what they're trying to do, like in that other episode where he made a long speech about immigration to Ziva and I couldn't for the life of me work out what his point was at the end. And also because I dislike prejudice as a whole, so seeing it in Tony, who otherwise has always been a compassionate guy more concerned with individuals rather than collectives, rankles more than a little.
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I think you are right about Tony having lines that he wouldn't cross, I think there are somethings that if he did he would quit immediately, I'm just not sure that tampering with evidence like Gibbs did is one of them. Sure he wouldn't do it to frame a suspect but to get rid of evidence to help someone he believed was doing the right thing? I have no doubts that he would tamper with evidence to help one of the team, if he hadn't found another way to get around the problem.
We have had 4 major writers leave within the last year (including Sequitur, Richefic, Kikkimax) and these are people who have announced that they are no longer interested, not to mention a number of others who have drifted away. I would to see a revival because we really need some new fic but unfortunately I haven't seen the improvement and consistancy we needed this season to keep people let alone bring the old fans back. Your fic is already so much better than most of the new stuff and I think so much is about attitude and trying to improve. I have recently started to give concrit (sometimes quite strong) to authors who I think have promise but I'm not really a writer so it doesn't carry a lot of weight. And then there are those who refuse to accept concrit and blow up over the smallest things. I better stop before I start ranting!
I don't get involved in politics but I think there a certain issues that you can't help form an opinion about even if you don't "take sides". I'm a little like Tony that I can usually argue, or at least see, both sides. I do think it is strange, and I think it comes down to a writer trying to get his opinions out there and using Tony to do it. I wouldn't be surprised if the same writer wrote the eps where this issue comes out. It's a shame they doing it do him, as if he doesn't have enough faults already! Now if it was McGee, I would be more accepting of the fact he felt that way, as he is from a white middle class family. It would make sense his views were limited.
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I'd be really interested to see just how far he would go to protect someone in that way, if Abby was unable to produce any other evidence to protect a teammate from incarceration or something similar. I think you're probably right, and that if he did believe strongly, he'd cross a line, but I also think that while Gibbs is in charge, or it isn't Gibbs that is in trouble, it will also be Gibbs who crosses the line so Tony doesn't have to, if that makes sense. But it'd be really interesting to see how far Tony would go without Gibbs there to provide cover or take the heat.
3 ace authors, too! Although from what Sequitur says in her journal, it didn't seem like she was falling out of love with the show, she jsut kind of ... vanished. Unfortunately, because I love her fic. I think that so far, while I personally have been enjoying the season so far, it has kind of been made up of a lot of one-off episodes - not solid team ones, but focused either on the Ziva-arc, or on Halloween, and then on Franks. There hasn't been a plain NCIS crime episode yet, and that seems to have plagued S6 too. NCIS has never needed gimmicks.
I love con crit, genuinely, so please if you ever feel like it go ahead with mine - the thing is, reader con crit isn't any less important than writer con crit, and I hope nobody has thrown that at you as an excuse to repudiate any crit you made! From my POV, I write fic because I enjoy writing - I'm not specifically aiming it at an audience, I just want to write something that I think fits with the characters that I haven't been given in an episode, or because I want to explore the characters more and make them sleep with one another. ;-P But I also put fic out there for people to read, and hopefully enjoy, and if people aren't getting enjoyment out of it, or aren't getting as much as they think they could, I want to know why so that I can take it on board and possibly improve my writing not just for them, but for myself! I think con crit is give-and-take, but it's not hard to be polite about it. Writers ideally should be able to take con crit on board and accept the other person's opinion, even if they disagree with it, but also respect the con crit enough to looka t their fic and go, okay, so how could I have done that differently? Rant all you like, BTW, as I seem to ramble all I like! ;-)
I'm just a little uncomfortable with where they're going to take it, you know? I don't particularly think the writers are going to make a sudden big deal out of Tony's vague, disjointed attitudes on immigration, but I'm confused by them in the first place. I also think that your point about writers is very good, and the fact that Tony is such a talkative character makes it very easy for writers to put their own views into words from his mouth. I would also buy it coming from McGee, but I think it's a trait I'd dislike in any character.
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That is an excellent question about how far would he go. Fic anyone? I think he would be willing to risk his career but I don't think he would cross the line at the cost of a innocent civilan, i.e He wouldn't frame someone to take the focus of one of the team. That's a good point about Gibbs shielding him. And there have been cases in the past where he felt he was crossing the line and delberately shielded it from them. That's why we see Franks.
I think she wanted to write a novel or something which I'm sure she'll well at but it was a shame to lose her. From the spoilers we are getting it looks like we are going to have more "big" episodes which i think is a mistake because they start to lose that specialness. NCIS has always been great about letting us know slowly, a line or two in an ordinary episode and now they are continusly forcing it on us. The "Where have all the Petty Officers gone?" question. :-)
So far I've only given concrit to people who need to do some major adjustments to their writing but still have potential to be decent writers or when something really bugs me. I haven't personally experienced anything negative from giving it yet. And yeah it is also about the way you give it, I try and point out some postives first and I always give it via PM so it remains between me and the author. There is one person in the fandom I would love to give some really harsh concrit to because her story ideas are fine but her characters are so OOC but in the past she almost single handedly ruined a fandom project over a minor issue that I've decided it's probably not worth the trouble. You have a great attitude and I know in the limited writing experience I've had that recieving concrit makes you work so much better and you feel prouder about what you have written. I think it depends on the reason you write. A lot of fic authors just seem to want to get positive reviews and they don't care about anything else (what they don't seem to realise is that they would get more reviews if they wrote better). I write fanfic (try to) because sometimes I feel guilty about only reading and I want to give some of the enjoyment I have gotten, back to the fandom. And the better I write, the more I can give. I know that there is always going to be bad fic but I'm so frustrated at the moment at how much there is.
I certainly hope it's not a permanent trait and it is just a certain writer trying to get his point across. Yeah, I wouldn't like it McGee either but I think it would be more believable if it was coming from him.
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That could seriously be an amazing fic, I actually can't recall reading anything quite like that yet! And yeah, definitely, he'd only go over the line if it solely protected the person he wanted to protect, not to the detriment of a civilian or someone undeserving of the blame. But I also wonder if Tony, given the chance, would also chose the many over just one of his team, if that makes sense, like if he had the choice between saving Gibbs or Ziva or McGee but as a result two innocent civilians would die. I'd like to think he'd save the civilians, but then again I'm not so sure he wouldn't save one of his team - both things are ridiculously angsty and now I'm getting plot bunnies! Oh noes! Sorry, I really am awful for stream-of-consciousness rambling.
I'd love to read that novel, but selfishly, I want more NCIS fic from her, too! NCIS was always quite good at revealing things to us about the characters through small snippets, or the way the characters reacted to a case. Like, the character moments came from the case, whereas now the cases are built to fit character moments, and I think that's wrong. NCIS is a quirky character show, but it managed to be that naturally, before, and I hope the writers don't become so focused on that they forget what NCIS is actually about - dead petty officers! ;-)
Honestly, that's such an ace, positive, and respectful way of giving feedback, I'm not surprised people have only been good about it to you so far! I think also, as horrible as this sounds, you can sometimes tell from a fic whether a writer is going to be more or less receptive to con crit! Sometimes those ones are probably best to steer clear of, LOL! I really enjoy con crit, and find it extremely helpful, and I would hope most writers do. I write for myself, but I care about the reactions of the people I share my fic with, too - I can't deny that I am always delighted to get a positive review! But I'd hate to turn into someone who wrote solely for the reviews - the thing is, I know they're addictive, and they can seem to become a reflection on how "well" you're writing, but writing specifically for them isn't a great reason. (Mini-rant, but writers who demand feedback in a very specific I want them for my ego kind of way make me rather irritated.) I think your fic is lovely, it's the kind of fic that stays with you, you know, it's very warm and thoughtful - reflecting your reasons behind it, I think! I am awful at giving out con crit, mostly because I am still at a stage where I fret over my own writing so much, but I actually think being able to give it is incredibly important and I might try to work on that. I think I'd be able to do it if someone asked, but I'm wary of volunteering it out of a lack of courage at the moment!
(Thanks again, by the way, for making my working day so much more interesting with your great conversation! :-D)
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I just wish she had finished the WIP of a sequal to Rictus she had going, the first three chapters are terrific. Exactly. If you compare the first three seasons with those after it, it's almost like it's a different show.
Unfortunately it's generally the ones who aren't receptive to concrit that need it the most. Sometimes though I am really tempted to blast something off just to see what their reaction would be but so far I've always managed to control myself.*g* Reviews are fantastic but yeah if you are writing simple for positive reviews you have the wrong attitude. I'm not great at reviewing in general but I'll certainly never give one to someone who demands them. Thank you, that means a lot considering I constantly worry about my fic not being good enough. I say go for it and together we can make fandom a badfic free place! *bg* It's taken me about two years to get comfortable enough to be able to do it but I've realised that I need to stop caring so much about how other people view me and for me this is a first step at putting out my opinions without worrying about the reaction (and I personally think it would be kind of exciting to get back an angry reaction, you just need to remember not to take it to heart ;-)
I really enjoy it too! I don't think I've ever had such an in depth discussion about NCIS before and I love it. :-D
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I literally just went back and re-read those three chapters and they really were so good, that would have been a fantastic, Tony-centric fic! I am glad we've got what we have got, but she was a truly ace writer in this fandom!
Definitely true: there are so many things people don't realise they're doing (myself included) until they're pointed out to them. Everyone has a defensive reaction to criticism, I think, but if people just take a minute, breathe, and realise that most of the time the criticism is helpful, or will be in the long run, then they can get over that initial reaction and be resepectful and grateful! (Or they can respectfully disagree entirely, that's their prerogative too!) I think between us, we've got a pretty good attitude - and the only way to feel more confident about your writing and to improve it is to write more. *entirely unsubtle hint hint* ;-) I'm not a massive fan of conflict, but I am (obviously) a huge fan of discussion, so negative responses could definitely be exciting and thought-provoking too! It's also part of the fun to kind of take that risk and put stuff out there, and on LJ people can and do judge your work. I think it's great to want to get positive reactions out of people over you and your fic, but it's when people kind of forget that getting a universally positive reaction is impossible, that's when arguments start.
I'm loving it, and the in-depthness is preventing my job sapping too many brain cells!
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LOL, maybe in a couple of weeks when I'm totally bored I'll try writing something new. I just need to come up a decent idea or two! I think a problem that a lot of people have is that they are too lazy to use any concrit they recieve. They are only in it for the reviews and so they want to get something out ASAP so they can't be bothered making improvements or checking facts. We also tend to get caught up in our right to have our say and opinions heard and we forget everyone else has that same right and they are not always going to agree with.
We can't have your brain cells dying! :-D
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I totally agree, especially if they are getting a number of good reviews, like on somewhere like ff.net, and the constructive can come across as really, jarringly negative next to pleas of more, more! And yes, it is easy to forget that our opinions aren't always right - I'm totally guilty of it myself and need a good Gibbs slap to snap me out of it!
Have you tried flicking through any prompt comms to see if anything inspires any ideas? I've not been successful in doing that yet, but I always think the idea of prompt table challenges is a really good one!
I'll soon be in negative numbers, I think! ;-P
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I'll have to have a look at them, although I have found so far that I need more than a one word prompt to get me going. Got any prompts you would like to read? *g*
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