Episode Review: 7x05 - Code of Conduct

[little_ozzo]

Beware! Tony-centric rambling, ravings, swoonings and squeeings behind the cut, along with 27 poorly cut and coloured caps! tejas, I swear I'm totally re-writing as well. I just got distracted by Tony's nose and hair. Again. ;-)

Comments

[karababe_64]

Sorry about the slow reply, I didn't see your reply until now :-)

That's an interesting idea about having it relate to Kelly, I could buy that. And he is being more open about his memories of them, so yeah that's a possibility. But as much as I am getting sick of Gibbs' backstory, for moments like these something, even a one line comment, is needed to stop it from being ooc.

I'm open on the physical abuse too. I enjoy reading it because it is another form of Tony!Whump and there are enough suggestions in canon to suggest it was a possibility. The one thing that could be against it is the allowence of Gibbslaps. If he had been physically abused I don't think he would be so welcoming of them, especially at the start of their relationship and I think if Tony had seriously objected it or had some other reaction the first time Gibbs gave him one, Gibbs would have discontinued the practice. I don't remember that in Hide & Seek, I'll have to go back and watch. I personally think that what Tony says in Chained is the truth, the way he says it and the facial expression on his face even though it is turned away from the other guy (can't remember his name) suggests that he isn't lying. And if you look at other examples of Tony undecover, he does have a lot of the truth in his backstories. Does he say "usually" in that line? If he does then that would suggest that it did happen but not on a regular basis.

It's a nice dream. I'm not so sure it will happen soon because of the whole thing with Ziva's father. It would be a little too much to have two bad father story lines within a season. But yes, it is always nice to see Tony!whumping and for the rest of the team to see Tony in the same light that we do. :-)

[little_ozzo]

No problem - it meant I got your reply first thing on Monday as I headed into work - which is exactly the kind of time I need some Tony chatter! ;-)

Yeah, the problem is we're having to come up with these reasons for it, we're being given pretty much nothing to explain this change in character. I am really surprised the day has come that I actually want Gibbs to be explained more, after a while of thinking we already had been told everything there was possible to know!

When it's written well, I love it, because it can be backed up well by canon and it explains Tony a lot. In the abuse fics I've read, the head slapping tends to be explained by Tony trusting Gibbs implicitly, I think, which I buy, but it does seem strange that if he was hit on a regular basis when he was younger, he wouldn't have a problem with it when he was older. Because I love a totally fucked-up Tony, one of my ideas was that Tony really does like attention, and that when he was a kid he hardly got any. His mother smothered him but then he was sent to boarding school, his parents both drank an awful lot, and he soon learned that the easiest way to get attention was to get negative attention. All subjective, of course, but I just like the idea of a Tony who is genuinely so screwed up by his parents that he thinks getting spanked at Halloween is "good times". It would explain why he acts out at work and why, despite constantly trying to get Gibs' attention, he seems to freak out when that attention is positive. Maybe his dad did smack him around when his mother was alive, then after her death became so drunk he didn't even care enough to do that, from Tony's perspective.

There are a lot of great versions of Tony's backstory floating around - I'd agree, my instinct is that he's telling the truth in Chained, just because he isn't playing to an audience in that moment and he knows that it's better to mix the truth in with a lie, not just undercover but always. I did watch the episode, but can't remember if he said "usually" - my first reaction is that no, he didn't, but apparently I'm losing my short term memory already! Eek! But, whether he said it or not, my personal feelings would be that Tony wasn't a consistently beaten child, but I do think he was hit on occasion. I just like the idea that he was neglected, very badly, by his dad - so much so that he could barely even be bothered to punish him when Tony acted out with that very purpose in mind.

Seriously, they've all got really screwed up relationships with their fathers! I read two things about the new season coming up, so don't continue reading if you're avoiding spoilers - hope this is okay! I read that 1) Jackson Gibbs would be returning, and 2) an angry father would return. Now, that sounds to me like it will be Ziva's father, though I suppose it could be Jackson, who does have reason to be angry with his son IMO. From that, it does look unlikely we'll get anything on Tony's backstory in that respect anytime soon - unless this is the "Season of Fathers" or something like that! Which is annoying, because after all this talk now I really do want something canon about his dad! :-)

[karababe_64]

The thing I have about Tony trusting Gibbs implicitly is that sure now Tony trusts him but how realistic is it that he would have trusted Gibbs that much, with a personal thing, at the start of their relationship? I am of course assuming that Gibbs started the slapping fairly soon after they meet (even though we didn't see it on screen until after half a dozen eps). He definitly loves attention, especially negative attention, as is shown by how he baits Gibbs all the time. But I think that would make more sense with negelect/emotional abuse rather than continous physical abuse, although your theory about his father stopping after his mother died also makes sense. Saying all that I really have no clue when it comes to pyscology, I didn't even study the subject when it was offered at high school, so I could be completely off the mark here! :-)

I don't think he says "usually" in the episode but it has been a while since I've watched it. I know I have seen something where he does use usually but I think that was a fic. Sometimes it's had to remeber what was actually in an episode and what was just in a fic!

I don't mind reading spoilers as long as they don't give away the ending or major plot twists. I think it will be Ziva's father who is the angry father. I very much doubt he will let Ziva get away with quitting Mossad (sp?) without showing up again. It will be nice to see Jackson again. Maybe, since it is unlikely that Tony's father will turn up, we can have Jackson and Tony develop some sort of close relationship.

[little_ozzo]

It's true, we've never been told anything about how Gibbs and Tony came to meet other than it was in Baltimore, and that Tony smiled (great line!), so although I think that Tony's trust in Gibbs is implicit and that is shown on screen, we don't know the origin of his trust. Obviously Gibbs is a really good leader, someone who knows how to inspire faith, but I think Tony out of all of the team would be the first to question Gibbs and maybe even be the first to walk away from him, if he felt Gibbs had gone too far with something. Yet more lack of backstory!

I actually do study psychology and psychotherapy - and what I can say is that if anything, it makes matters even less clear, LOL, everyone's experiences are really different and individual, as are the residual effects of abuse. But I would completely agree with you in that his reactions - or lack of reaction other than a wince and thank you, to Gibbs' head slaps - would suggest that he was never subjected to continual physical abuse. I think the neglect is canon, and the emotional abuse fairly evident, but I think that he was never hit on a repeated basis - but I wouldn't rule out his being hit on occasion, possibly quite violently. But there are so many ways the abuse/neglect he suffered - and it's canon, I think, that he did suffer to an extent - can be interpreted, and the level at which he was hurt does seem to change in fic quite a lot. As a Tony!whump afficionado, I quite like the emotional and physical trauma to be upped as much as possible in a realistic way - and that doesn't necessarily mean all out beatings, I think there are awful ways to abuse a child even without that much physical pain - but I'm sometimes pleasantly surprised by fics where Tony's father isn't a 2D baddie!

LOL, I always have that problem, especially if it's a really good fic and I'm like, that should be canon!

Yeah, I'm pretty convinced it'll be Ziva's father coming back - and I love Jackson, so can't wait to see him, but wholeheartedly second your wish for more Jackson/Tony interaction! This is my rampant Tony-favouritism talking, for a second, but it'd be a huge character thing for him if they did something with his father. Ziva's dad is a baddie, sure, but he does, I think, love her. Gibbs' dad is adorable. I think somethign with Tony's dad could be amazingly powerful, because they could really mine MW's ace acting! Obviously, I'm biased, but I think his relationship with his father is already more interesting that the relationships Ziva and Gibbs have with their fathers, and that's with zero screentime. Tony rocks. ;-)

[karababe_64]

We don't actually know that Tony and Gibbs met in Baltimore, it is just assumed that they did. For all we know, Tony could have just decided to apply at NCIS and Gibbs hired him that way. Tony has in the past shown he is very willing to stand up to Gibbs when it is needed and I think that would have happened even more at the start of their relationship as Tony comes across as someone who regularly questioned authority and it would have taken time for him to realise that Gibbs' authority/orders are different from others.

I re-read Trial and Tribulations by Richefic last night and it ties in nicely with what we are discussing. A couple of interpretations made were that Tony's father never touched him and that's why Tony likes the fact that Gibbs slaps him on a regular basis, that physical touch. There was also how Gibbs would like to show more affection, like he does to Abby and Ducky, but Tony is the one who is keeping the distance. The bit I liked the most is how Tony chooses his clothing based on how secure/confident he is feeling and I think we can see that in canon, especially in the last few season within going back to wearing suits when he was clearly stuggling emotionally. And know things are getting better emotionally he has moved back towards a more casual look.

He would do a fantastic job with that sort of story line. Although maybe the reason it is such an interesting relationship is the fact that it has had zero screentime.

[little_ozzo]

Oops, my bad - another example of getting fanon mixed up with canon! So it's actually never stated they met, just that Tony was there, and that Tony smiled. :-D

Yeah, he's always been willing to call Gibbs out when he's doing something Tony doesn't approve of - the two incidents that first come to mind are the Moby Dick smackdown in Reveille and the awesome rant in Cloak - and, interestingly, I think both of those incidents are in response to Gibbs kind of endangering the team. Not so much in Reveille, but his obsession is becoming dangerous then, and Tony tries to jolt him out of it, and in Cloak it's very much about the lies - justifiably, because Tony and Ziva were physically harmed as a result of them. I'm beginning to question which comes first in Tony's priorities and loyaties: Gibbs or the team.

I think that's the fic I was thinking about, with the not touching, and the wearing of suits as a comfort mechanism rings a bell. I definitely think that supports the suits in S6, I think he was totally screwed up and majorly over-compensating in that season. I hope he has relaxed in this season, as the more casual wear seems to suggest!

That's the thing, it's already so interesting with no screentime, just hints (I watched Witch Hunt last night, love that episode and especially the scene with McGee in the car), that I feel like I'm being greedy wanting something to actually happen on the show. But I am quite greedy! ;-) Ah well, I'll just trust the writers and showrunners for the moment, it's entirely in their hands. And then there's fanfic!

[karababe_64]

Hmm, interesting. I hadn't thought about if Tony's loyalties were to the team or to Gibbs first, I have always assumed that they were to Gibbs first. Has there been any cases where he has put Gibbs first over the team? I can't think of anything off hand. The Moby Dick speech was as much about telling Gibbs that he was taking things too far as protecting the rest of the team. The Cloak thing I think was more about personal betrayal than the betrayal of the team as a whole. Other times I can think of that Tony has stood up to Gibbs have been either about letting Tony and the rest of the team in with whatever thing Gibbs have off by himself about or about what Tony thinks is best for a case, like going undercover.

Nothing wrong with being a little greedy ;-) And anyway I don't think it is greedy to get more of a backstory about a major character, considering how much certain others have gotten. And it's certainly not greedy to want to see more brilliant acting! :-)

[little_ozzo]

I always assumed they were to Gibbs first, but after Hiatus I'm not so sure. He stayed, after all. And I can't think of anything offhand, either - I think I just assumed that the reason he stayed longer at NCIS than anywhere else was because he had found something in Gibbs, not the organisation or the lcoation, that he could stay loyal to. And I think that can be supported by the way he was in the first season, at least, the way his faith in Gibbs was possibly a little blinder than it is now. Not blind, really, but definitely a little but more dogmatic. Now, I think his loyalty would run to the team as a whole, first. It has to, I suppose - Gibbs needs someone he knows will stay, and look after his team, and Tony would do that without question, I think - though I'm not sure at the end of Hiatus whether he stays because Gibbs asked/told him to, or because he felt responsible for the team separately to Gibbs' request. IDK! Very interesting, though, I'm definitely going to be thinking about that more!
Yeah, his standing up to Gibbs in Reveille was kind of a reaction to Gibbs suddenly going apeshit at Tony, too, but to me it felt kind of protective - possibly towards Gibbs, as I'd say it's canon that Tony is a total worrier when it comes to Gibbs' - and the rest of the team's - safety. He's never been afraad, either, to suggest to Gibbs that whatever his gut is telling him might be wrong - to put the other view forward. I think that's a very LEO thing to do, to find other possibilities and explore them rather than focus on one possibility. In Cloak, I think it was personal because of his sensitivity that season about lying, but that whole idea of trust was such an issue for him that season regarding the whole team, I think - he was really off-base in some episodes. Which is fascinating!

Hee, and there can really never be enough of MW/Tony, I don't think! ;-)

[karababe_64]

His staying after Hiatus could be at least partly a loyalty to Gibbs in that he didn't want to let Gibbs down in his choice of Tony to take over the team. But I think that there would also be a certain level of loyalty to team in the decision as well. But it is quite possible that he started at NCIS because of loyalty to Gibbs and then it partly transfered to the team and now he has split loyalty because I would imagine it would be very hard for him to choose between Gibbs and the team, especially considering recent events.

He certainly is protective of those he is close to. That has been shown not only towards Gibbs but also with Abby in Bloodbath and even his recent actions with the whole Ziva thing can be considered to be driven by a need to protect those he cares about. The looking for different possibilities I think comes down to the way he thinks, he often doesn't view things in a traditional way. It could be because he was a LEO but I think a lot of it is just who he is.

Totally agree! ;-)

[little_ozzo]

I think he stayed initially out of that loyalty to Gibbs, but I wonder if like you say, it transferred and is now a little bit split. And, because I thingk about these things far too much, I wonder how split the rest of the team's loyalty would be, if it came down to Gibbs and Tony - not that I think that'll happen anytime soon! I think Tony would be surprised and horrified if anyone chose him over Gibbs, though I think at the moment that McGee might.

Protective!Tony is one of my favourite things ever - I adore him stalking around behind Abby in Bloodbath and how very on-the-ball he is in that episode, and the way Gibbs and him really work together to protect her. I also love in Murder 2.0 - the one with the internet-filmed murder, is that the right episode? I think so - when they've left the office with Gibbs despite the threats to his life, and Tony mutters in kind of resigned frustration that he wishes Gibbs had stayed in the car. And Gibbs is like, "Shut up or I'll shoot you", like he's been harping on about it because he's such a worrier. I think his actions with Rivkin were definitely because of a desire to protect Ziva - not physically, I think he's smart enough to knwo she's sorted in that department, although there's that one episode with the crazy Marine in the interview room and he's there, so fast, when it looks like things are going to kick off - but definitely emotionally, in the last season. I don't think it worked, but not through any fault of his own.

I think it's both part of being a LEO and part of who Tony is - he's always been self-sacrificing, most obviously in Twilight but in general, too, he'd ignore his own needs if any other person on his team was in danger - but I think Tony really is the job. He's got cop/fed written all over him, I think - but then he's also great at the udnercover work, too. He's almost too complex!

[karababe_64]

I think most of the team's loyalty would be to Gibbs first but I think that Ducky and maybe also McGee and possibily Abby would make a decision based on who they believed was right in a situation which means that they might be willing to switch loyalty to Tony if they felt Gibbs was in the wrong.

There is also the ep in season one where he gets mad that Gibbs takes off the bulletproof vest. And protective Tony is HOT! ;-)

He would certainly be lost if he couldn't do the job anymore, even with the support of Gibbs and the team. That's one of the reasons I find it hard to believe he every really considered going off with Jeanne, because it would have been highly likely she would have allowed him to continue being a cop. The fact that he can be considered to be wearing a "mask" in his everyday life is definitly one of the reasons why he is so great undercover. I think it also allows him to be someone else for a little while and not worry about if people like the real him or not.

[little_ozzo]

I'd agree, I think most of them would go with Gibbs first - although I'm really shaky about McGee. I think he's got Tony's back, especially from what we've seen this year, and would go with him rather than Gibbs. Although I don't think Tony would ever make them choose - if he and Gibbs did get pitted against one another in some way, which I hope never happens because I love them too much, I think Tony would just walk away. I don't know, I just like rambling about Tony far too much! ;-)

Oh my God, I love that episode, where he's in the car growling and annoyed, eating a sandwich! Love him! And the whole thing about refusing the Rota team to stay behind and watch over Gibbs - one of my favourite things about his character ever!

Yeah, I think he loves his job a lot, even when it's crappy. That's why his comments about things being "ridiculous" in 7x01 upset me so much - I like semi-burnout Tony in some fics, but the idea of him losing his innate dedication to his job really upsets me - because he's so good at it and seems to be made for it. I've always thought that when he chose the team over Jeanne, he was also choosing DiNozzo over DiNardo, if that makes sense - DiNardo would be fine not being a cop, never was a cop, but DiNozzo is a cop down to the bone. I'm just about to get into discussion about this with someone else, too, the fact that Tony hasn't been undercover (on screen) since Jeanne, which is interesting because since then, he's been acting a role more and more since she left. I wonder how much he likes undercover work now, after her, compared to how eager he was back in the early seasons!

[karababe_64]

That's very true about him walking away, simply because he wouldn't think he could compete against the loyalty Gibbs has even if he was in the right. And I think he also tries to protect that loyalty towards Gibbs that the others have, by hiding instances when his own opinion of Gibbs might have dropped slightly. Nothing wrong with rambling, as long as it's about Tony. :D

I interpretated that comment as if he was undercover. He didn't want to have to tell with another team mate while they were searching for Ziva/seeking revenge, so he tried to make the job look as horrible as possible. There might have been a little personal dissatisfaction but I don't think it was sign of him losing his dedication. If anything I think his frustration over the politics and trust issues in Cloak are more of a sign of being over his job. That definitly makes sense (at least to my sleep deprived brain), while we didn't really see a lot of that personal struggle on screen I think that he was definitly trying to deal with being two very different people and also trying to figure out which was the real "Tony". That's an interesting fact about not having been undercover. I wonder if he would still be able to perform as well undercover as before. Because whilst he might be acting a role more now, it's also more obvious that he is acting a role. And what made him so great before is that unless you looked deeply you couldn't tell that he was acting.

(I apologise if that rambles all over the place, I've had less than 7hrs sleep in the last 72hrs, so not a lot is making a lot of sense right now :-)

[little_ozzo]

I love that - Tony protecting everyone's loyalty towards Gibbs - that would be so very typical of him!

I like that explanation, because I just found it so difficult to watch that I hadn't really explored the reasons behind it that much, or had interpreted it as Tony just being really, really out of touch and disillusioned with everything that was going on. It kind of felt like he'd lost some spark. But at the same time, the way he seems to have shut down over the summer, followed by kind of jolting awake and rescuing Ziva, seems to have snapped him out of the downwards spiral I think he was on throughout S6 - like, he seems to have revived a little and his silliness and joking now, in S7, feels less forced than it did at times in S6. But his behaviour in S6 was really brittle, at times, and felt like he was really overcompensating. Haven't seen enough S7 yet to know how his character's going to pan out, at the moment Tony seems to be playing his cards quite close to his chest - acting again, possibly! I love that we're never quite sure to what extent he's acting.

Oh no, poor you - what on earth have you been up to? I hope you get a chance to get a lot more sleep soon! And by the way, I'm really impressed at your coherence on that little sleep. I struggle for that at full capacity! ;-)

[karababe_64]

For most of s6 it was like he was a breaking point, which is fair enough considering everything he has been through in the last few years. And it is good that they do actually have him at that point because it would be unrealistic for him to continually shugg things off without it affecting him in some way, not to mention the extra Tony!angst. But I do wish they had addressed it differently, and showing that Gibbs had noticed that Tony was in trouble and possibly have him trying to help Tony get past it. I rememeber reading/watching an interview with MW and he said that he felt that Tony was trying too hard to keep things normal and that is why the humour felt forced and over the top. Despite having high hopes for him this season, don't forget that s6 started well and then things went quickly downhill so I'm not holding my breath! He has always been a private person, even though it may not seem that way at first glance, I don't think that part is acting.

My stupid brain won't switch off for long enough to fall asleep which, with having to get up early the past few days, doesn't make for a lot of sleep. Even as exhusted as I was yesterday, I couldn't fall asleep until after midnight which gave me 6hrs last night which is slightly better than the night before when I was tossing and turning until 3:30am and then had to get up at 7am for a job interview. I just need to make it until Tuesday morning when I can sleep in until late morning. :-)

[little_ozzo]

Yeah, he was definitely on a kind of edge through S6, acting out in order to disguise just how very lost he was feeling, I think. I think it was self-preservation - he maybe felt a lot more vulnerable, being back after four months away, and so he was kind of trying to act like Tony from earlier seasons because he thought it might hide how very screwed up he actually was. And the awful thing is I think it worked, I think people did get fooled into thinking he was just being a silly, OTT fratboy. I think everyone was pretty screwed up in S6, and all dealing with their own issues - and I think his act came partly out of a desire to make thigns seem normal again. And for him, normal is season 1, 2 and 3, or at least the parts of those that weren't fraught. I think Gibbs did start to notice, especially during Bounce, SxSW and Knockout, but it wasn't explicitly stated that he had and that's me being subjective. But because Gibbs was being even more detached than usual in his own fucked up way, he didn't do very much about it.

I have to admit I like S6 much more when viewing it with this view of Tony in my head, because it makes it more interesting. I hope S7 is a good season - I'm pleased with it so far but I hope it doesn't cause any more friction between viewing groups, I know some people are really disappointed with it so far and so I hope that changes! I also hope they go somewhere interesting with Tony's character, especially now that he seesm to be taking on more responsibility. And, if this makes sense (bear with me, I was out last night and am still recovering!), although I enjoy S6 with that idea about Tony shielding a big breakdown, it's not my favourite season, and I'd like for there to be some natural progression in his character so that I can look back and be like, so, S6 Tony was the screwed up, shielding Tony before whatever happened next in S7 - that's an awful explanation, I am sorry. I just hope something happens in S7 that sort of explains/justifies S6 a bit more, you know?

Possibly unfair of me to tax your brain with my incoherence when you're so tired - don't you have any downtime this weekend? If not, then I am hoping Tuesday comes quickly for you so you can catch up on some z's. I hope the interviews are going well, too! :-)