Comments | linguaphiles: complicated grammar structure, or just wrong?

tsukikage85 in linguaphiles

complicated grammar structure, or just wrong?

Feb 24, 2011 19:31

'kay guys, need a grammaticality judgement here:
*eyes you, haven't having had dessert yet*

Comments 28

fencer_x February 25 2011, 01:37:42 UTC

It sounds...off. Like, it takes me a minute to understand what it means. I'd say "not having had dessert yet" or "having not had dessert yet"

subluxate February 25 2011, 01:41:52 UTC

I would, too (the former in particular), but I think it's technically correct, just awkward.

alirose February 25 2011, 01:41:57 UTC

Yeah, "having not had dessert yet" was the first thing that came to mind for me.

echoandsway February 25 2011, 03:49:11 UTC

Me too.

iinkaholic February 25 2011, 01:48:08 UTC

i don't think it's technically wrong, just stylistically awkward. "not having had dessert yet"

ritaxis February 25 2011, 01:54:04 UTC

No, it's wrong.

iinkaholic February 25 2011, 01:54:47 UTC

i stand corrected, then :)

smirnoffmule February 25 2011, 01:52:12 UTC

I don't think it's wrong. Since you can say "Having had desert", I don't see why you can't say "Haven't having had desert", though I agree maybe it's not the most elegant or concise way to convey that.

fencer_x February 25 2011, 01:55:17 UTC

Hmm, but can you say, "I have not have had dessert"? Since it uses all the same bits just in different ways? Because that DEFINITELY sounds redundant and wrong to me, whereas the OP's example is understandable at least.

smirnoffmule February 25 2011, 02:10:06 UTC

No, I don't think that does work, but that's a different construction, which makes the second have redundant (and in a contradictory tense). Having had incorperates the progressive (and haven't having had is just a negation of that) so it has a slightly different meaning, and all the havings are doing something there.

fencer_x February 25 2011, 02:13:53 UTC

How is "haven't having had" a negation of "having had"? What would "not having had" be, then, if not a negation? It anything, it's more than simply a negation.

Thread 6

ritaxis February 25 2011, 01:53:19 UTC

one of those verbs is wrong.

"having not had dessert yet:" "not having had dessert yet:" those are correct (though possibly not what the author meant). I think the writer vacillated between one of those and "haven't had dessert yet" which needs another word in it to make it right ("eyes you, who haven't had dessert yet"), and ended up with a monster.

Notice that in the first two the person doing the eyeing has not had dessert yet, while in the third, it is the person being eyed who has not had dessert yet.

gr_cl February 25 2011, 01:54:04 UTC

It's grammatically wrong for me. "Haven't" must be followed by a past participle (e.g. "had").

You could write "not having had dessert yet" or "having not had dessert yet"