Language in animals (not taught by humans)

[sparkofcreation]

I know this probably sounds silly, but does anyone have any links to studies/articles on language in animals? Not in the sense of animals such as chimps, gorillas, dolphins, and gray parrots that are taught to communicate with humans; I mean studies/articles on either (1) vocal communication between animals; or (2) animals learning (without outside

Comments

[sparkofcreation]

That sort of seems like hair-splitting. They've learned that making a certain sound will have a certain effect, so how is it different from, say, a very small child that learns to go "Ba!" when hungry to ask for a bottle? And I'd love to see the study/article your definition of language/not language comes from; it's one I've never heard before

[sparkofcreation]

Why do you assume that this is just from a single study or article?
All right, then, I'd like to see all the studies and articles that use that definition. Or, in the alternative, any one of them. It's still a definition of language I've never seen before, and it seems to be the one that you are basing your entire argument on.

They haven't.
How do you know?

Because it produces results.
But my point is that it doesn't produce results, or at least not as well as previous tactics did. They have switched from a non-vocal method of asking for food, which certainly produced results, to a vocal method, which sometimes produces results and sometimes doesn't. And even if this did produce better results, which it doesn't, why would it occur to them to try that particular method in the first place?

I don't believe you.
So your entire answer to my post is based on your belief that I'm lying?

[djonma]

I totally believe cats talk to us

[sparkofcreation]

Would you call that "conversation" in the strictest sense of the word, though? I mean, we can have long exchanges with our cats, but we don't know what they're getting at most of the time and we have no way to know if they're understanding us, either. I don't doubt that you understand some of their sounds and they understand some of yours, but I don't know if that's really conversation, but more along the lines of what you'd have with a toddler.

Do your cats make similar noises with each other as they do with you? Ours pretty much only make sounds at us, although they'll make shorter, less complex noises at each other or at birds or toys (or glasses of water).

Yeah, I do already know that cats are smart and they make different sounds in different situations (I'd love to see if there's an analysis somewhere of those sounds), but what these two have been doing the last few weeks is beyond anything I've heard from cats before (and I've had cats my whole life, usually multiple cats at once).

[sparkofcreation]

I don't suppose you have any links on communication in dogs (which I understand from "The Dog Whisperer" is also based on other body language and on scent), or in cats?

[tytal]

As a small tangent, my dog can tell when I'm going to have a seizure well before I can. Or at least she could when they weren't controlled. There was a distinct tone she used with me that I suppose meant she was worried. If I didn't pay attention to her seizure-bark quickly enough to pacify her she'd start trying to pull on my clothes to get me to sit down. Very interesting.

[legion_of_gaia]

My cats communicate with my family all the time. One of them will come and find me in another room and make grumpily loud meow until I follow her into the room where her brush is kept. The other will chatter endlessly when she is nervous and reponds to questions (like "What's wrong?" with long meows of various pitches. They even respond to there names, including nicknames said in various (human) vocal tones. I don't know if any of this counts as language, but it's definitely communication.

[sparkofcreation]

Thanks, that's what I was asking. Have you done any research on what those various pitches might mean?

[severalmoose]

I think all animals have the mental capacity to understand that certain actions produce different results. Just like dogs that have been "taught to read". Through repetition and seeing that if they sit when presented with certain combination of lines, they will get a reward, they will learn that when they see "SIT", they should sit. It's the same with verbal communication. Animals aren't stupid and can figure out that meowing a certain way or doing a certain gesture will produce certain results. "If I shove my head into her hand, she will pet me." I don't think this is language, but that's up to your interpretation of what language is. There's also a certain level of instinct, I guess, for lack of a better word. Animals will "cry" or whine or moan when upset just like humans. Even humans incapable of speech or grasping language have this capability. There's a reason they can speak or make noise in the first place.