Evolution of place-names

[ulvesang]

Even though nations and peoples may disappear and transition with time, oftentimes their names remain-- if even in an archaic, etymological reference. However, we sometimes take this for granted. Could these areas now so-labelled be legitimately referred to using the "old" name?

• The place-name "Vietnam" is derived from the Viet peoples, who

Comments

[kali_kali]

No, they don't speak Gothic-- but Latvians don't speak Liivi anymore (or at least most of them), either..

That's because Latvians never spoke Liivi to begin with. The Liivi are a separate ethnic group, related to the Finns and Estonians, who live along the Baltic coast in parts of Latvia. Latvians are Balts related to the Lithuanians. The language of the Liivi has been on the decline, but measures are in place to keep it alive and the Liivi are a protected minority in Latvia.

[ulvesang]

Nevertheless, they are Latvian citizens.

[kali_kali]

Yes, but what does that have to do with it? Above, it looked like you were trying to say that Latvians used to speak Liivi, but now don't, which is untrue, since they never did.

[ulvesang]

If Liivi are Latvian citizens, that means that they are also Latvian, and speak (spoke?) Liivi. Therefore, (some) Latvians speak/spoke Liivi.

[kali_kali]

You are conflating ethnicity with citizenship. These are two very different things.

Liivi are Latvian *citizens*, but they are not *Latvians*. On the flip side, I am *Latvian*, but I am not a Latvian *citizen*.

[ulvesang]

I know some dark-skinned Scotsmen with Muslim names who can make a mean curry and speak with unintelligable Scots.

[kali_kali]

Good for them. And I know Canadian slang, speak with a Canadian English accent, I know how to play lacrosse and hockey and I eat poutine and beavertails and maple syrup. Doesn't mean I'm ethnically Canadian (ignoring for a moment the fact that such a thing doesn't really exist).

How about I put it this way: Ethnicity is something you are born. Citizenship is something you choose.

[ulvesang]

Ethnicity is something you are born. Citizenship is something you choose.

Oh, I beg to differ. Both my flatmate and I were born in the U.S., despite growing up in Scotland, and certainly didn't choose to suffer all the (lack of) rights of a "foreigner".

[kali_kali]

If you don't wish to "suffer" the lack of rights of a foreigner, you are free to leave. Last I checked, Scotland didn't hold people there against their will.

If you want to play the "I'm oppressed!" game, I have plenty of ammunition, so I don't think you want to get into that.

You are also possibly conflating culture in along with ethnicity and citizenship. Culture is yet another separate thing.

[ulvesang]

When did I say I'm trapped here? This is my home. I have more rights here than I do in the country of my citizenship. Nevertheless, I never chose to be a citizen of that country. Nevertheless, there are things I am not entitled to because I am an "alien".
I'm sure this guy is glad to escape his "prison" and return "home" too.

[kali_kali]

I never said you were trapped there. I said that if you had a problem with the lack of rights you have as a foreigner, you could leave.

And now you've brought a fourth word, "home" into the equation. Let's first take the example of the man in the article. He is ethnically Serb but Australia is his home. By the sounds of it, he has no citizenship, and his culture is probably Australian, since he feels he has no link to Serbia.

In my case, I am ethnically Latvian, but a Canadian citizen, and my home is Canada. My culture is both Latvian and Canadian. In your case, it sounds like you are a US citizen, but culturally Scots and your home is Scotland. What your ethnicity is I could not say, since I do not know you.

[ulvesang]

Last I checked, Scotland didn't hold people there against their will.

If you want to play the "I'm oppressed!" game, I have plenty of ammunition, so I don't think you want to get into that.

You said that citizenship is choice.

I didn't choose to be a U.S. citizen.

If I leave, I'm not getting another citizenship without a good fight.

[kali_kali]

I never said it would be *easy* to get another citizenship. Just that the option to change your citizenship is something that exists, while changing your ethnicity is not something that can be done. You can change your citizenship, your culture, your home, but you cannot change your ethnicity.

[ulvesang]

So who/whate are my curry-master friends ethnically, then?

[kali_kali]

I don't know. You never mentioned where their families originated from.

[ulvesang]

Ethnicity = race?