Request!

Oct 24, 2005 10:17

Will somebody who knows Korean please write the first ten numbers of the native counting system in IPA for me ( Read more... )

numbers, korean

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muckefuck October 24 2005, 18:48:56 UTC
Yale transcription:

/hana/
/twul/
/seys/
/neys/
/tases/
/yeses/
/ilkop/
/yetelp/
/ahop/
/yel/

As for IPA, YMMV. I (not a native speaker) say something like this:

['hɑnɑ]
['tul]
['sɛt]
['nɛt]
['tɑsɤt]
['jɤsɤt]
['ilgop]
['jɤdɤl]
['ɑop]
['jɤl]

(Note that final stops should be unreleased. I'm afraid I was having trouble getting the correct diacritic to display.)

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: D lutin October 24 2005, 18:56:41 UTC
Neat!

Thank you so much!

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muckefuck October 24 2005, 19:41:13 UTC
/chenman.eyyo/

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pne October 24 2005, 19:51:01 UTC
Also, the unvoiced stops in those words are not aspirated AFAIK -- so ['tul] shouldn't turn into ['thul] (not like English "t" in "tool").

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lutin October 24 2005, 19:54:14 UTC
Then I shan't aspirate them.

Thank you :)

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muckefuck October 24 2005, 20:47:15 UTC
If you're a native speaker of English, your voiced stops are probably voiceless in initial position anyway. Just pronounce /twul/ as if spelled "dool" and it will probably come out fine. (Though--particularly if you're American--make sure the vowel is fully rounded and not fronted, as it is in many dialect. Also, I think most Koreans would use a "clear" rather than "dark" l finally, which is why I've written [l], but I'm fairly sure I've heard [ɫ] as well and it wouldn't be misunderstood in any case.)

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lutin October 24 2005, 20:51:06 UTC
Do you mean that all initial stops should be voiced? Or just that I should take care to unaspirate initial stops?

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muckefuck October 24 2005, 21:20:50 UTC
Korean has three series of obstruents. In Yale, they are written /C/, /Ch/ and /CC/. (That is: plain consonant, consonant + h, and consonant doubled.) How these are labeled varies, particularly for the third case. For instance, Wikipedia calls them "plain", "aspirated", and "tense", respectively. (Other terms for the last series include "geminate", "emphatic", and "glottal[ised ( ... )

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therealnickjr October 25 2005, 00:41:47 UTC
I think he means the latter, and doesn't realize how wicked cool of a linguist you are.

PS: I circumvently revealed in front of the Structure of Spanish class today that Judith invented Sonority Sequencing! It was fun. :)

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lutin October 25 2005, 01:33:05 UTC
Hot!

Were they as dumbfounded as you me and everyone else was?

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therealnickjr October 25 2005, 01:45:10 UTC
There was definitely a murmur of awe and amusement at the coincidence throughout the room.

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muckefuck October 24 2005, 20:35:37 UTC
Um, I thought I took care of that by, you know, not indicating aspiration on them...

In point of fact, though, I've recently read that for at least some speakers they are aspirated initially, just not as much or in the same way as the so-called "aspirated" series. I'll see if I can't scrounge up some further details.

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lutin October 24 2005, 20:52:05 UTC
Post them if/when you find out?

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muckefuck October 25 2005, 14:47:30 UTC
Here's the money quote from p. 62 of Lee & Ramsey's The Korean language (Albany, 2000):In initial position all three series are unvoiced. There is no voicing contrast in Korean. The lax, or "plain" consonants are pronounced in initial position with a slight puff of air and a voicing delay of about 30 to 50 m[illi]sec[onds], while the aspirated consonants are pronounced with strong aspiration lasting about 100 msec. In most varieties of English, voiceless consonants are pronounced with about 70 to 85 msec. of voicing delay and aspiration, about midway between the Korean values; as a result, English speakers are often unable to hear the distinction between the lax and aspirated consonants.
So aspirate them if you want, just not as much as you would English initial voiceless stops.

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pne October 25 2005, 04:57:35 UTC
Um, I thought I took care of that by, you know, not indicating aspiration on them...

*shrugs*

Phonetic transcriptions vary; some are broad and some are narrow. For example, for English I might not indicate aspiration as it generally correlates with voicelessness in stops (certainly word-initially).

I was just trying to be helpful.

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