John/Joan in fictional television

Aug 30, 2005 23:08

I just watched an episode of Law and Order: SVU that borrowed heavily from the case of John/Joan, a case in which a gender identity different from biology was forcibly assigned to one of a pair of twins. Having read about that case fairly recently online, I could see the major "plot twist" for the episode coming a mile away (the sister confessed to ( Read more... )

gender issues, moving, non-personal, computers

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i dunno... lexx_kun August 31 2005, 04:28:15 UTC
I'd venture a guess that sex is determined by genetics, and I pity the poor souls whose brains are wired contrary to their sex chromosomes.

What was the design flaw of your LG tablet that forced you to get it fixed?

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Re: i dunno... gharbad August 31 2005, 05:37:23 UTC
the word sex is defined as physical attributes. Hence genetics.
Gender, is your mental gender. How you feel, whether it's male or female.

Not sure if that's what you meant by sex is determined by genetics. Mainly because that statement is vacuously true.

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Re: i dunno... yiab August 31 2005, 07:15:04 UTC
i would say that there are actually three attributes in question here:
genetic sex (i.e. whether your chromosomes are XX or XY)
physical sex (the configuration of your genitalia)
gender (whether you identify with masculinity or femininity)

in the case mentioned above, we get John/Joan being genetically male, physically female and mentally male as well. There are other individuals whose genetic and physical sexes match but whose gender disagrees with that sex.

by the way, physical sex is not entirely determined by genetic sex, even barring surgery. exposure to unusual mixtures of hormones in the womb can cause, for example, a genetically male fetus to be born physically female. this is one, but certainly not the only, cause for a disparity between physical sex and gender.

in any case, i believe that what lexx_kun meant, expressed in this paradigm, was that both physical sex and gender are determined by genetic factors and that ey pities the individuals where the two are genetically determined not to match.

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Re: i dunno... lindiril September 1 2005, 05:23:11 UTC
As you say, Yiab, physical and genetic sex can differ without surgery.

There are XY females, who are male fetuses who fail to develop testes and do not differentiate as male (I read of a case in a magazine once where this ran fairly commonly in one family; as I recall, the affected persons developed as attractive but infertile women because they were not receptive to androgens, although according to this article on Swyer's syndrome, I don't think this is a common state as the undeveloped testes are incapable of producing either androgens or estrogens).

There are intersexed people, whose genitalia are poorly differentiated at birth, and who in modern times are often assigned a sex at birth, sometimes genetically incorrectly, and a gender identity that may or may not suit them (arguably a better-intentioned approach than displaying them as circus freaks; the idea in doing so rather than allowing them to mature and choose for themselves is largely to preserve these children from confusion and derision as they grow up, but unfortunately ( ... )

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Re: i dunno... lindiril September 1 2005, 05:32:41 UTC
As suggested by previous commenters, you may need to better mark the difference between sex and gender. I may not have been clear on that distinction, especially since I was really not marking the difference between genetic and physical sex very well. But yes, sex is in most cases determined by genetics, although there are notable differences. Gender in most cases follows sex, with there again being differences, but the cause for those exceptional cases is not well understood ( ... )

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