Comments | lilian_cho: On the Attraction of Boys' Love and Androgyny

lilian_cho

On the Attraction of Boys' Love and Androgyny

Apr 01, 2008 23:23

Originally posted @ IJ as part of Meta-Friday on March 20, 2008.

Disclaimer: This is my own observations on androgyny and the Japanese genre of Boys' Love ( Read more... )

lytdybr, theories, lj, fandom, fanfiction, chinese, japanese, to-do

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I'm not saying this properly but... anyotherknight April 2 2008, 15:00:57 UTC

I'm so glad you wrote this! You've been talking about it for a while, so I was curious to hear your thoughts ( ... )

Re: I'm not saying this properly but... lilian_cho April 2 2008, 20:34:39 UTC

the freeing aspect of it, where one can find men who may look and even act vaguely female, but are still male enough to be excepted from the restrictions placed on those in female gender roles

haha yeah. I can think of two cute boys right off the bat who act cute & girly, and get away with it because they _are_ cute and girly X-D
(and short. Must not forget short.)
P used to have this whole spiel of "I'm cute and have a babyface and have loong eyelashes. Don't you find me adorable?" -- of course he never came right out and said it but that's totally what he's thinking!
D is so earnest and say the strangest things at the random-est times and always bemoan his lack of girlfriend. And, and, his hair is reminiscent of a Taru (FFXI) =O
*coughs* Su Li was partly inspired by D *coughs*

so the reader can have their "out there," forbidden romance in situations that couldn't happen with a straight couple, perhaps

Ah yes...same-sex boarding schools/dorm FTW \o/

the protagonist's androgyny keeps it more "grounded" amongst readers.As in, ( ... )

Re: aesthetics anyotherknight April 2 2008, 20:52:21 UTC

as in, readers can more readily identify with the protagonist, you mean?
Yes, that's exactly it.

XD I meant horrifying more in the sense of an angel's wrath, but yeah, there are certain things that can be creepy.

Re: aesthetics lilian_cho April 2 2008, 21:03:40 UTC

Hee, I thought that's what you meant too, but then I started remembering scary transvestite stories X-D

My favorite transvestite story (not scary, except to the guy it happened to):

My brother's friend went to a hair salon, and his hairdresser was this totally hot & pretty chick. So he flirted shamelessly and came on to her the whole time she was cutting his hair. When she was finished, he kissed her and said thank you (no doubt thinking "Boo-yah, I'm so smooth!")

And she answered, "My pleasure." In a bass voice.

X-D

Re: aesthetics anyotherknight April 2 2008, 23:00:04 UTC

That's pretty awesome. It's funny, though, because most of the trans people I know are really out to avoid confusion (or possible persecution) and usually mention it if they get into a situation like that. XD

Re: aesthetics lilian_cho April 2 2008, 23:05:33 UTC

lol, she probably wanted to teach him a lesson or smth X-D

Or she wants to traumatize the hetero guy for life MWAHAHAHA.

The view of trans prostitutes is kinda weird where I come from. If you have sex with a trans prostitute, it doesn't make you gay. Dunno. Strange. It's like...the gender is more important than the sex. Or smth.

Re: aesthetics anyotherknight April 2 2008, 23:27:41 UTC

Hmm. It's weird but I've always sort of thought that if you love someone their gender shouldn't matter, but at the same time saying things like "this doesn't make you gay" seems a little insecure. It bleeds into people being "someone"sexual (Draco isn't gay, he's Harry-sexual), which just feels a little objectifying. Dehumanizing, even? You could put a romantic spin on it, I guess, but in my mind the first instance is that A loves B and neither of them care what people say either way, and the second is A loves B but that's okay and definitely not gay because A isn't really gay since A hasn't been with anyone of their own gender before that ( ... )

Re: aesthetics _lile April 3 2008, 17:30:12 UTC

sorry, XD will interrupt a bit here b/c I think you raise some interesting points.

The label of sexuality is usually based on the gender of attraction. I always thought it was plausible to still maintain the same label of sexuality even if you find one anomaly because it still doesn't change attraction as a whole. whether anyone saying it out of defense or honesty is difficult to determine, but that's why it's so effective as a defense.

Typecasting is unfortunate, but it's a good reflection of human nature. Most of the yaoi fans I see are not particularly interested in reality or actually knowing what being gay is all about. The appeal of yaoi is the way it so effectively offers something different and sensational without being threatening by forcing an unpleasant agenda. It really has nothing to do with respect, and it has more to do with finding a representation of men that benefits the reader in some sort of way.

Re: aesthetics anyotherknight April 3 2008, 18:18:34 UTC

You're very right, which is why I'm much more a fan of the Kinsey scale and such. What I'd been trying to get at is that even if the attraction is an anomaly, perhaps orientation should fade into the background and let things be what they are rather than vehemently denying something may or may not be true, but really shouldn't be an ongoing issue.

Escapism plays a huge role in yaoi culture, and I get that, but it just irks me a little that perpetuating hurtful stereotypes is seen as part in package. I'm not asking for writers and authors to change, as it's their prerogative to create what they will, but I do think that the audience could use a major shot of media literacy; it's fine so long as they are aware it's not real life. As you said, many fans aren't interested in knowing the specifics in reality, but it'd be really nice if everyone was aware they exist.

media literacy lilian_cho April 4 2008, 00:14:17 UTC

People keep on referring to the Kinsey scale. Do you have a link where can I take a test? (I highly doubt it'll tell me something other than 99% straight, but I'm curious all the same)

the audience could use a major shot of media literacy; it's fine so long as they are aware it's not real life. That's true for just about any media ( ... )

Re: media literacy anyotherknight April 4 2008, 02:22:42 UTC

I don't know about online testing, sorry.

I know it's not likely to happen, but widespread rational thought and media literacy is a pipe dream of mine.

Re: aesthetics lilian_cho April 4 2008, 00:19:32 UTC

Also: I find gay writers in Nifty.org perpetuate more stereotypes than HP slashers, actually =S
And if you never ventured into Nifty.org, DON'T. Let's see, it's like a few of cursescar's H/D fantasy sex, taken to the extreme.

Re: aesthetics lilian_cho April 4 2008, 00:27:30 UTC

saying things like "this doesn't make you gay" seems a little insecure. It bleeds into people being "someone"sexual (Draco isn't gay, he's Harry-sexual), which just feels a little objectifying. Dehumanizing, even?

Hmm...on one hand I can see how it supposedly make the person "special" because they're an exception...on the other hand I can see your point.

I guess a tame comparison would be: "Yeah, I don't usually dig brunettes, but I'm attracted to you anyway." It only makes the other person paranoid/jealous and dye their hair blond or smth.

the common Western view that many lesbians are "gay until the penis comes."

lol, no I don't know this, do share.

Basic yaoi, typical seme/uke typecasting. They're both men, but one of them is effeminate and thus their suitor can't be gay since he's not really sleeping with a man.

*nods*
I think in the case of people sleeping with transvestite prostitutes, they justify their actions because they're still the one inserting their penis into someone else's orifice.

being so insecure about the ( ... )

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