(Untitled)

[lieutenanth]

Compulsory reading for men, imo. Go on, it'll only take a couple minutes.

edit: just had to share this comment with you:"I’m sick of hearing about self-defense courses for women. How about self-control classes for men instead ?"
Something that had never occurred to me until now, rather foolishly. Thoughts?

Comments

[furrballs]

Nice idea but but people who rape were born that way.

[lieutenanth]

No, I disagree. I think societal pressures make a big difference. Maybe some men are born with an innate desire to rape, but through societal control eg. big enough deterrents, an anti-rape mentality perpetuated and reinforced in everyone from a young age, better sex ed generally we can make a difference to the numbers.

[rhube]

Yeah, no matter what you think about genetic factors or the way society can effect people's behaviour, there is always choice, and there are always ways we can choose to help these people better understand what it is they are choosing, what effect it will have, and why they shouldn't do it.

[dwinsper]

We live in a society in which words are often used to put women down, where calling a girl or woman a "bitch," "freak," "whore," "baby," or "dog" is common.

We also live in a society in which words are often used to put men down. In fact, many adverts aimed at women play some sort of lame joke implying men are stupid, incompetent or akin to pets (OK, I'm stretching that last one a little bit).

[soupytwist]

Some do, but the number of adverts aimed at men is astronomically higher than those aimed at women. (For one thing, you can tell if an ad is aimed at women - aimed at men is the default.) That helps build up a societal worldview in which men's opinons matter and women's don't.

And second, while there are words used against men, there is no male equivilant for 'slut'. Or 'whore'.

[furrballs]

well there are words but just not equal. i.e/"stud", "king" etc

[dwinsper]

For the most part (Lynx being the prominent counter-example), adverts try their best to not be derogatory towards women.

Also, why there is no commonly used male version of "slut", I am hearing "man-whore" used more and more. I somewhat wish there was a male version of "slut", since I could actually make use of it. It really irks me when a guy tends to angle everything he does around whether or not there's likely to be a women he can pull there.

[furrballs]

I thinks its gonna take a little more then some banner making :D

The problem arises between right and wrong. The people that attack tend to know its wrong or they would'nt hide or kill the victim afterwards. So that person has made a choice to do wrong to some one else. Can the preditors be rehabilitated afterwards? Its doubtfull so I still think that the persuer will still rape, sex ed classes or not.

[soupytwist]

Sorry to randomly jump on a random comment, but that's simply not true. Most people who get raped don't get killed afterwards. Rape isn't something committed by anonymous strangers: it's done by friends and boyfriends and husbands, far more often. (I don't know any recent reliable stats for that, as they're notoriously unreliable when it comes to rape, but out of the *thinks* 20 or so women I know who've been assaulted and raped, only one of them was hurt by a stranger.)

And lots of it seems to be because the men concerned felt that pushing a sexual situation was OK, beyond the point where the woman was comfortable. At least two of those men didn't even really think they'd done something wrong - they just felt things had 'got out of hand', despite being clearly told that what was happening was not wanted.That's not being born with innate stupidity or evil, that's growing up in a sexist society that let those men be bastards and never taught them otherwise.

[furrballs]

fair point, you know 20 women who have been atacked? Yikes.

I suppose I am biased in some ways. 2 memebers of my family have been sexualy attacked and all of the preditors were oppertunitsts. The victims didnt know there attacker and and were not intoxicated. In fact one family member was out in the middle of the day in summer with her boyfriend and was still sexually assulted (yeah I know not quite rape).

Kendrick does have a point. Attidudes towards sex and sexuality and all of the above in general are still frowned upon. Personally I blame ex-christian society :D (sorry James)

[soupytwist]

I always kind of forget that men don't get to hear from their friends who've been assaulted... I wouldn't have thought 20 was that unusually high a number at all. And women would also be less likely to tell men if the attacker was somebody they knew - nobody wants to hear that their friend or brother or whoever raped somebody, and no woman would want to be on the other end of the argument that would result in telling.

And oh yeah, attitudes towards sex are screwed up. Fucking hell.

[nmitchell]

"I’m sick of hearing about self-defense courses for women. How about self-control classes for men instead ?"

Self defense classes for women are pointless. Self defence classes for men are pointless. The best form of "self defense" has nothing to do with fighting someone, and everything to do with running away, attracting attention, and not getting into bad situations in the first place. Once you are, you're screwed.

The basic reason for this is that people who attack other people do this because they are stronger and because they know they are going to win before they start.

[furrballs]

Intresting point. Do you think some one is born like that though? Are rapists born rapists?

[dwinsper]

I'd wager it depends on what the motivating factor is. From the statistics I've heard, it's often used as a means of control, domination (same thing, perhaps?) or humiliation. In that case, are those traits inherent in people? I'd probably wager so, to a greater or lesser extent. As a "mild" example, people with a fiery temper tend to be from a family of people with fiery tempers.

In any case, it's perfectly possible to use culture/nurture to stop people losing control or over-stepping the bounds.

[furrballs]

I suppose the question we should be asking is what makes a rapists? What pieces of the puzzle spell that out.

[amiame]

Can you imagine if the self-control classes for men and the self-defense courses for women were in the same building?? CAN NO-ONE ELSE SEE how this would make for some appalling romcom starring Richard Gere and Julie Roberts or something?? Involving some laughable understanding with the sex-mad stud and the 'I'm-a-feminist-because-I-can-hit-punchbags-while wearing-make-up' who hate eachother at first then begin to realise that they are made for each-other and then there's a big wedding with things like runaway priests and dogs who are bridesmaids and their best friends who turn out gay and realise that they are in love too and then they have a double wedding and then everyone laughs and kisses and Busted play 'All You Need is Love' at the end and then the dead walk the earth??? Or is that just me...

Oh yeah - I think that article is pretty good actually. Anything that makes people more aware of how their behaviour can be interpreted/misinterpreted (both women and men) can only help the problem, surely.

[markosh182]

Ok, I havent read everything word-for-word (there's like 60 comments here) but i don't think rapists are born rapists. I did a few modules on philosophy and ethics in school for my R.E. A level and covered the basics for things like Freud's social conditioning.

The point of this is people act according to how they have been taught/ how they have picked up things (ideas or concepts, by which they form their own priciples of morality) through life. A child of racist parents will not definatly grow up to be a racist themselves. If the first things a person geathered early on in their lives is that there is nothing wrong with rape then they are likely to think that.

[lieutenanth]

rofl - brilliant!

[amiame]

You laugh now, Kendrick, but I swear, it's next summer's hideous blockbuster feelgood movie.