Re: Long-Winded Comment is Long! 1/2liana_bluestarAugust 14 2009, 20:51:31 UTC
Replying to this part now. I'll get to the other section in just a moment.
If a reviewer is going to flat out proofread the entire story in a review, I agree with you on the comments being taken to private message or email. That's just way too long and really ridicilous. However, if the reviewer is going to use a paragraph as an example of what's wrong, then I will disagree with you. I've done that to show the author where a problem point is. The thing is, if I'm going to do that, I'm also going to say what I've liked about the story as well.
Another thing I will disagree with you on is going in and changing something after a story has been completed. I know most authors generally will not do that. Hell, I used to say to myself I would never change anything in something I've written because it was complete and I did publish it. That has changed. I've gone back to a story and tweaked it. In fact, I look at some of my older material now and cringe, and I fix my errors, no questions asked on that. Even on recent fiction I've gone back to fix something.
As for the "I didn't really like it" reviews, I think they're good, to an extent. For one, it keeps the author from ego-tripping. It may not change the author's mind about the story (which it shouldn't anyway) but if XYZ is about grammar and spelling, then those are the reviews that can help (maybe) improve the next story.
Re: Long-Winded Comment is Long! 1/2lawless523August 14 2009, 23:17:27 UTC
Hmmm. I didn't realize I'd said I wouldn't, or writers shouldn't, change stories in response to reviews. I guess I think writers needn't, unless they're correcting typos or grammatical errors, but I've changed stories slightly after they're posted if I've come up with better wording, or in one case when someone pointed out an inconsistency in tone to me. I liked her suggestion better than the way I'd done it.
What doesn't make sense to me is pulling a story apart and essentially rewriting it, or rewriting a major scene or piece, in response to criticism or a review. I guess it depends on why the author does it, but to me it smacks of giving in to the "please continue" when a story's finished. I can see leaving an early effort that you'd write differently now alone or taking the time to improve it. If it's something integral to the story, though, and you don't think it needs changing, then don't change it just because someone else says you should.
I find "I didn't like it" reviews no more helpful than "I liked it", in part because often "I didn't like it" because it's not the type of story, or pairing, or whatever that the reader likes, which has nothing to do with the merits of the story.
On the other hand, I do think saying that you love the writing and premise but have an issue with the plausibility of a specific fact or plot twist or characterization is valid. For a review to be valid, IMO, it needs to engage the merits of the story and not the merits of the reader's taste and preferences.
As far as analysis of one paragraph of a story goes: When it's this long, you've gone overboard. Yes, this is the review of my friend's story I mentioned at the beginning of the next post. You should be able to spot it without help, but it's the last review. It is ridiculous. And it's about either one freaking paragraph or one freaking sentence! It could have been dealt with in two or three sentences.
Re: Long-Winded Comment is Long! 1/2liana_bluestarAugust 16 2009, 14:14:53 UTC
I was mostly referring to the tweaking. This was something that came up in my composition courses when I returned to college. (I think I still have my coursebook and that it's in the garage.) A writer never quits editing (or something along those lines). I thought it was ridiculous then, but that was more for research stuff. I've also seen that it's true.
And for the reviews you've just mentioned, yeah, I tend to ignore those "I didn't like it because of the pairing" (probably a lot better than ignoring an update soon review). For the most part, I've usually written the obsure or rare pairings as opposed to the popular pairings. I'll go with the popular pairings if I'm new to that particular fandom (or if I simply can't see those characters ever parting). But I like to play around, too and maybe even squick someone out. ^_^
Okay, that was a long review with concrit, but I can't say anything against. Only because I'm sure I've done the same thing. I mean, I do see what you're saying and I completely understand how you feel about it, but that's actually something I'm going to have to declare myself as Switzerland on because, as I said, I'm sure I'm guilty of doing the same thing. Of course, I've beta-read for people after doing that . . . O_O
Re: Long-Winded Comment is Long! 1/2lawless523August 16 2009, 19:23:59 UTC
I guess I feel that it could have been handled more sensitively by either being more concise, which was certainly possible, or sending an e-mail, also possible because it's in my friend's profie. It was a point that isn't cut and dried anyway. I doubt anyone receiving a review like that (you might be an exception) would want to use the reviewer as a beta reader.
And what matters isn't how I felt, it's how the review made the writer feel. I've since read a couple of chapters of bakayasha's (the reviewer's) work, and I liked it - she's probably got more range than alafaye - but I like alafaye's work better because we see the characters more similarly and the review completely overlooked the content for a nitpicky discussion of the use of names and pronouns. It wasn't rude, exactly, but it was condescending, like alafaye didn't know the rules of writing. As far as writing ability is concerend, alafaye is as good a writer as bakayasha and alafaye wondered who died and made bakayasha God.
So I guess I'm saying that concrit can be phrased in any number of different ways and the best way is the most concise, objective, and humble.
I see "update soon" as not much different from "I don't like the pairing" except one's positive and one's not. It just seems strange to me that "I don't like it because I hate the pairing" bothers you less than "update soon". One means the reader wasted time reading something they weren't going to like anyway and still bothered you about it and the other means the reader liked your work.
Re: Long-Winded Comment is Long! 1/2liana_bluestarAugust 16 2009, 20:46:17 UTC
Update soon only bothers me in that it's a really empty review. Yes, I know what the reviewer is trying to say - which is that they like it and do want to see more - but it doesn't tell me what's liked, what isn't liked. If someone tells me they don't like my story because of the pairing or the content, well, it's just humourous for me because, as you said, they "wasted" their time reading something they did not enjoy. I don't ask them to read my stories. I leave it up to them.
Again, "tone" is something we, for the most part, project into written text. There are times I literally go out of my way to say whether or not I'm upset when I'm typing something to someone else because they don't know and I don't want any misunderstandings.
And I don't use the reviewer as a beta-reader. I'm my own beta-reader, which can sometimes land me into trouble. ;)
Re: Long-Winded Comment is Long! 1/2liana_bluestarAugust 16 2009, 14:16:04 UTC
Oh, and I wouldn't call that last reviewer as a well-known author for that fandom. I don't even read that person's work. Mostly because I think the user's ID is ripped from onna's over at gravi muse meet. That's neither here nor there, though.
If a reviewer is going to flat out proofread the entire story in a review, I agree with you on the comments being taken to private message or email. That's just way too long and really ridicilous. However, if the reviewer is going to use a paragraph as an example of what's wrong, then I will disagree with you. I've done that to show the author where a problem point is. The thing is, if I'm going to do that, I'm also going to say what I've liked about the story as well.
Another thing I will disagree with you on is going in and changing something after a story has been completed. I know most authors generally will not do that. Hell, I used to say to myself I would never change anything in something I've written because it was complete and I did publish it. That has changed. I've gone back to a story and tweaked it. In fact, I look at some of my older material now and cringe, and I fix my errors, no questions asked on that. Even on recent fiction I've gone back to fix something.
As for the "I didn't really like it" reviews, I think they're good, to an extent. For one, it keeps the author from ego-tripping. It may not change the author's mind about the story (which it shouldn't anyway) but if XYZ is about grammar and spelling, then those are the reviews that can help (maybe) improve the next story.
On to the next part.
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What doesn't make sense to me is pulling a story apart and essentially rewriting it, or rewriting a major scene or piece, in response to criticism or a review. I guess it depends on why the author does it, but to me it smacks of giving in to the "please continue" when a story's finished. I can see leaving an early effort that you'd write differently now alone or taking the time to improve it. If it's something integral to the story, though, and you don't think it needs changing, then don't change it just because someone else says you should.
I find "I didn't like it" reviews no more helpful than "I liked it", in part because often "I didn't like it" because it's not the type of story, or pairing, or whatever that the reader likes, which has nothing to do with the merits of the story.
On the other hand, I do think saying that you love the writing and premise but have an issue with the plausibility of a specific fact or plot twist or characterization is valid. For a review to be valid, IMO, it needs to engage the merits of the story and not the merits of the reader's taste and preferences.
As far as analysis of one paragraph of a story goes: When it's this long, you've gone overboard. Yes, this is the review of my friend's story I mentioned at the beginning of the next post. You should be able to spot it without help, but it's the last review. It is ridiculous. And it's about either one freaking paragraph or one freaking sentence! It could have been dealt with in two or three sentences.
Reply
And for the reviews you've just mentioned, yeah, I tend to ignore those "I didn't like it because of the pairing" (probably a lot better than ignoring an update soon review). For the most part, I've usually written the obsure or rare pairings as opposed to the popular pairings. I'll go with the popular pairings if I'm new to that particular fandom (or if I simply can't see those characters ever parting). But I like to play around, too and maybe even squick someone out. ^_^
Okay, that was a long review with concrit, but I can't say anything against. Only because I'm sure I've done the same thing. I mean, I do see what you're saying and I completely understand how you feel about it, but that's actually something I'm going to have to declare myself as Switzerland on because, as I said, I'm sure I'm guilty of doing the same thing. Of course, I've beta-read for people after doing that . . . O_O
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And what matters isn't how I felt, it's how the review made the writer feel. I've since read a couple of chapters of bakayasha's (the reviewer's) work, and I liked it - she's probably got more range than alafaye - but I like alafaye's work better because we see the characters more similarly and the review completely overlooked the content for a nitpicky discussion of the use of names and pronouns. It wasn't rude, exactly, but it was condescending, like alafaye didn't know the rules of writing. As far as writing ability is concerend, alafaye is as good a writer as bakayasha and alafaye wondered who died and made bakayasha God.
So I guess I'm saying that concrit can be phrased in any number of different ways and the best way is the most concise, objective, and humble.
I see "update soon" as not much different from "I don't like the pairing" except one's positive and one's not. It just seems strange to me that "I don't like it because I hate the pairing" bothers you less than "update soon". One means the reader wasted time reading something they weren't going to like anyway and still bothered you about it and the other means the reader liked your work.
More on update soon in response to the next post!
Reply
Again, "tone" is something we, for the most part, project into written text. There are times I literally go out of my way to say whether or not I'm upset when I'm typing something to someone else because they don't know and I don't want any misunderstandings.
And I don't use the reviewer as a beta-reader. I'm my own beta-reader, which can sometimes land me into trouble. ;)
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