Re: I'm Long Winded -- Part Idogs_n_rodentsAugust 5 2006, 00:18:59 UTC
I still think that you are disregarding that such a request would be offensive.
If I was living in Italy (for example) and raising my children there, if I had a parent-teacher conference and my child's teacher asked me to talk to my children more in Italian than English, I would not be offended, and that for the good of my children I would oblige my teacher's request. (Taking a quick survey of the three other people in the room with me, there is agreement of everyone here that such a comment would not be deemed offensive to them). Thus, while I can see that some overly sensitive people might become offended, I think that a reasonable person who understands the value of learning another language for better survival and education would not be offended. Especially if the teacher is only addressing language and nothing else relating specifically to that person's native culture. That's just my personal take.
Many of their parents are illiterate. What do you do then? ... I agree that the teachers can't do it all. That's why I'm suprised that the government has not created some program for this problem.
Actually, I am not at all surprised that the government hasn't done anything about this. Prejudice and racism amongst the general population used to be motivation enough for immigrants to learn English (more of the forced assimilation that you mentioned previously). With the adoption of more tolerance for uneducated immigrants in the workplace, the American workplace, and subsequently the more liberal policy makers have encouraged older immigrants to not pursue further education (as far I'm concerned).
Something else to consider (consider it a relevant tangent as suggested by my more politically oriented friend sitting beside me), do you think that by educating the children of these more uneducated immigrants, you are actually helping the parents out by setting up a situation where the parents might have to learn some of the material that their children are learning? Perhaps by having the children surpass the parents, there might be an incentive for the parents to also learn English and other things in general.
Re: I'm Long Winded -- Part IizaaksmomAugust 5 2006, 01:10:23 UTC
I would not be offended, and that for the good of my children I would oblige my teacher's request.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one (and I believe that it would very much depend on the circumstances and the approach of the teacher).
Actually, I am not at all surprised that the government hasn't done anything about this. You have some very good points :)
do you think that by educating the children of these more uneducated immigrants, you are actually helping the parents out by setting up a situation where the parents might have to learn some of the material that their children are learning? I think that this could be a possibility, and I am sure that it is the hope of educators who work in this (probably frustrating) field. However, it does also depend on cultural values. Some cultures feel the children should succeed further than the parents (Jewish, Asian cultures) other cultures feel that children should follow in their parents footsteps, even education-wise "I've worked in the factory my whole life, and that's good enough for you" (Irish?) So I suppose it would only work if the parents see the point in betterment. So just don't hold that as a cultural value. Have you seen "Real Women Have Curves"? That's about a Spanish girl who wants to go to college. Her community thinks she is too uppity and should focus on getting a good husband. A very intersting film, written by someone within that community.
Re: I'm Long Winded -- Part Idogs_n_rodentsAugust 5 2006, 01:42:04 UTC
We will have to agree to disagree on this one
I'm willing to agree to that conclusion. :)
Some cultures feel the children should succeed further than the parents (Jewish, Asian cultures) other cultures feel that children should follow in their parents footsteps,
That is a very good point you bring up here. :) One that I am indeed aware of, but something I had forgotten in the context of our discussion here. Definitely something that is beyond the control of the government or the educational system.
If I was living in Italy (for example) and raising my children there, if I had a parent-teacher conference and my child's teacher asked me to talk to my children more in Italian than English, I would not be offended, and that for the good of my children I would oblige my teacher's request. (Taking a quick survey of the three other people in the room with me, there is agreement of everyone here that such a comment would not be deemed offensive to them). Thus, while I can see that some overly sensitive people might become offended, I think that a reasonable person who understands the value of learning another language for better survival and education would not be offended. Especially if the teacher is only addressing language and nothing else relating specifically to that person's native culture. That's just my personal take.
Many of their parents are illiterate. What do you do then? ... I agree that the teachers can't do it all. That's why I'm suprised that the government has not created some program for this problem.
Actually, I am not at all surprised that the government hasn't done anything about this. Prejudice and racism amongst the general population used to be motivation enough for immigrants to learn English (more of the forced assimilation that you mentioned previously). With the adoption of more tolerance for uneducated immigrants in the workplace, the American workplace, and subsequently the more liberal policy makers have encouraged older immigrants to not pursue further education (as far I'm concerned).
Something else to consider (consider it a relevant tangent as suggested by my more politically oriented friend sitting beside me), do you think that by educating the children of these more uneducated immigrants, you are actually helping the parents out by setting up a situation where the parents might have to learn some of the material that their children are learning? Perhaps by having the children surpass the parents, there might be an incentive for the parents to also learn English and other things in general.
Reply
We will have to agree to disagree on this one (and I believe that it would very much depend on the circumstances and the approach of the teacher).
Actually, I am not at all surprised that the government hasn't done anything about this.
You have some very good points :)
do you think that by educating the children of these more uneducated immigrants, you are actually helping the parents out by setting up a situation where the parents might have to learn some of the material that their children are learning?
I think that this could be a possibility, and I am sure that it is the hope of educators who work in this (probably frustrating) field. However, it does also depend on cultural values. Some cultures feel the children should succeed further than the parents (Jewish, Asian cultures) other cultures feel that children should follow in their parents footsteps, even education-wise "I've worked in the factory my whole life, and that's good enough for you" (Irish?) So I suppose it would only work if the parents see the point in betterment. So just don't hold that as a cultural value. Have you seen "Real Women Have Curves"? That's about a Spanish girl who wants to go to college. Her community thinks she is too uppity and should focus on getting a good husband. A very intersting film, written by someone within that community.
Reply
I'm willing to agree to that conclusion. :)
Some cultures feel the children should succeed further than the parents (Jewish, Asian cultures) other cultures feel that children should follow in their parents footsteps,
That is a very good point you bring up here. :) One that I am indeed aware of, but something I had forgotten in the context of our discussion here. Definitely something that is beyond the control of the government or the educational system.
Reply
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