it's simple, really...lhianaJanuary 16 2008, 00:32:52 UTC
No, it doesn't. Bread is a tricky tricky issue with me - just because it's local doesn't mean they didn't buy their flour at Wal*Mart, a business I do not support. But in most cases these small-scale beef/poultry operations don't even have the budget to deal with such technology. More than just that, there are places that don't WANT to use it, as is the case with most New Mexico ranches and farms. I have visited two of the four places that sell beef at the Market. Unless they're hiding some sort of lab somewhere on the premises, I can assure you there are no clones on those sites.
Even if it's not your cup of tea, I consider myself blessed to live in a town that takes catchphrases like "organic," "sustainable" and "local" seriously. I'm not an "Organic" freak -that is to say, I don't buy something just because it says it's organic. I prefer pesticide-free food, but when it comes down to choosing Local or Organic, I go with local. Why? Because I know enough of the farmers at the Market to know that although they are not certified organic, they don't use pesticides. Many of them are growing heirloom varieties that have been in their families for sometimes hundreds of years, back to when the Spaniards settled in the area in the early 1600s.
And I beg to differ on the restaurants. Big chains like the Outback or McDonald's or Olive Garden don't, but there are plenty of places here in Santa Fe that use produce and meat from our local farms. The Farm to Restaurant http://www.santafealliance.com/farmrestaurant.php and Farm to Table http://www.farmtotable.info/ movement are both prominent here.
Anyway, the reason I'm going on and on is because it's something that is not only important to me, but it's also something I have done a lot of research on. A LOT of research. I make the most educated choices I can when I'm shopping, and there are a million factors that weigh into each one. But like I said, it's something that's important to me, so I'm willing to take the extra time and money to do it.
Re: it's simple, really...ssimonJanuary 16 2008, 08:44:33 UTC
How we got onto bread is beyond me; but I see your point.
Nothing gets my going like 'organic.' You can have organic pesticides; and BGH *is* organic; its made by cows!
Was reading an article the other day about how with the increase in steakhouses; the quality of beef available for consumers has gone down. I'll see if I can find it again.
Ok, so riddle me this; your take is on the local angle (which is a good idea; the homogenizing of america pisses me off), what would you think of 'cloned' cattle coming from one of your local places? Right now the cost is prohibitive, but eventually it won't be. Just look at IVF and how bull sperm has turned into a commodity.
Re: it's simple, really...lhianaJanuary 16 2008, 19:06:12 UTC
dammit, I just wrote out a whole response and stupid LJ deleted it. Grrr. I'll try to rewrite.
I was the one who jumped into bread, but I just wanted to make the point that "local" doesn't necessarily mean more natural.
My boyfriend has the same issue with the word organic. Maybe they could have found a better term to use, but I think what most people like myself are looking for in that label are a) foods that are natural (i.e. free of harmful pesticides, GMOs, etc.) and b) an opportunity to shop ethically.
Don't worry if you can't find the article; I've read enough on this topic to make me seriously ill toward mainstream grocers. I don't simply don't understand why they've made their vegetables in every way superior EXCEPT in taste.
If you're at all curious, one of the books that encapsulates my feelings on these issues is Barbara Kingsolver's "Animal, Vegetable, Miracle." or "This Organic Life" by Joan Dye Gussow. Or "Shattering: Food, politics, and the Loss of Genetic Variation." Oh, and yes... "Earth in Balance: Ecology and the Human Spirit" by Al Gore.
To answer your question: I wouldn't buy cloned meat. While yes, I try to shop locally, and will do so even if it's not organic, usually the non-organic food I buy comes from farmers who don't use pesticides, but whose operations are not big enough to justify the cost of organic certification. I just can't see anything natural in cloning. And luckily, I think I'll always have another option. A lot of farmers don't just raise natural livestock because it's the trend; they believe in a natural and ethical way of providing meat to the public. Now, that doesn't mean the cows are getting scratched behind the ears every day, but at least they're living on pasture lands and eating grasses instead of corn.
Basically, I look at it like this: every time I make a purchase - not just for food - I am casting a vote. I'm voting to support a company, be they good or evil. I'm voting for the ethics of that company, I'm voting for the sort of community I want to live in, and I'm voting for the sort of food I want to eat. And these votes are important to me.
Re: it's simple, really...ssimonJanuary 16 2008, 19:46:53 UTC
As far as pesticides go, I agree with most of what you said. From what little I've delved into the topic 'big box' farming overuses them which does nothing but breed resistant bugs. Which then require stronger chemicals.... etc.
'organic certification?' Maybe I've been out of the loop but when did this happen? who is doing this certification and what's the criteria?
Okay, so we don't eat clones. However, because of the cost of the procedure it seems unlikely that cloned (animal) meat will end up on the market. It appears that the application is more for improved trait selection among breeding herds rather than 'cheap carbon copy meat.' A sort of fast forward button for animal husbandry. Do you feel the same way about uncloned offspring of cloned animals?
Yes, in america you vote with the all(mostly?)mighty dollar; so by all means vote how you feel. I just like to know where people are coming from is all :)
ps - email me the names of those books if you have a chance; if you don't mind terribly
Re: it's simple, really...lhianaJanuary 23 2008, 19:07:43 UTC
Big box farming is worse than that. Basically, with the arrival of GMOs, they started selling seeds to third world countries with a brilliant marketing strategy: "We've got these great, CHEAP seed, that will produce better than your current variety, resist more diseases and bugs, and give your more abundance!" So the farmer says, "Sounds great, I'll take 'em!" And after he buys the seeds, he learns that not only is this one strain not resistant to a certain disease (thus losing a year's worth of work), but the plants are engineered to commit suicide after they produce, so there's no chance of him saving the seeds for next year. And it's illegal to save the seeds anyway, so if he does, he'll be sued. Ta-da! That's the hospitality of the U.S.
And yes, products are not allowed to market themselves as officially "Organic" unless they've been certified by the USDA (http://www.ams.usda.gov/nop/indexNet.htm) . It's another tricky issue. Personally, I think the current standards are too loose, and big-farm lobbyists are pushing to loosen them even further. It's also very expensive to be certified, which is why most farmer's market vendors aren't. The standards should be harder but less expensive, thus making organic food available to more people, but... that would make sense.
I'm not sure I entirely understand your last question. You mean clone an animal and then eat its offspring?
I don't mind you asking questions. I like for people to do such, because it helps me reaffirm what I believe in.
Re: it's simple, really...ssimonJanuary 23 2008, 20:47:58 UTC
I ordered books :) yay books! :) I'm also reading the regs; and that takes time and effort; i'm sure i'll have an opinion on that soon.
As far as the seed thing, it's the same kind of stuff other companies do (ie Coca-Cola buying all of the water for manufacturing...) and not to sound like i don't believe you but where is that published? Or is it in one of the books?
I think my main bone to pick is that they need another fucking word other than 'organic.' If you can eat it, it's organic dammit. Too many people don't know what the word means so it gets co-opped into a new meaning that has nothing to do with what it *actually* means. *sigh*
As for the cloning thing, yes; thats pretty much what I mean. From what I've read it's way *way* too expensive to just use cloned animals in the food supply. What clones are being used/desired for is adding to a breeding herd. Say you want trait X but all of your breeding stock is very poor at X. You buy a clone embryo (or 2 or 3) that is very good at X and implant it in one of your breeders. Now you have a few clones that are good at X and in the 3rd generation (the clones offspring with the rest of your breeding herd) has the desired trait and is sold to market.
Maybe things just don't work that way but it seems to be the desired goal of using cloned animals; not this Orwellian idea of clones grown in tanks then slaughtered and sold to people.
You want cheap? I'm waiting for my single-celled protein to come in 'porterhouse' :) That'll be an even harder sell than 'cloned' meat.
I understand why you have an issue with the word organic; but if you're going to have an issue, please also have it with everyone else who uses it, not just the health food people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic
It's not like the consumers picked the word.
But as a writer, I understand your disgruntled-ness over it. If you ever want to see me squirm, just use "plethora" or "whimsical" in a sentence. :-)
I just don't know about the cloning. I really don't feel that it's been around long enough to actually know whether or not it's safe. In reference to something you said way earlier, about the growth hormones... you'll read this in one of the books, too: doctors are becoming concerned about kids going through early puberty; and one of them feels that if a family only switches to one organic thing, it should be milk. I don't really trust the FDA anymore.
I'm not a scientist, so I'm reading what I can about cloning and trying to make sense of it. Maybe one of these days I'll be convinced that it is okay; for now, I'm going to stick to the un-cloned stuff.
And on a completely unrelated note, do you by chance know any females who need garb for Estrella? I'm going to put some of my old stuff up on Ebay here in the next few days... I'll have more details soon, but put the word out if you don't mind.
oh, I have a few issues with a lot of people about 'organic.' Mainly it bothers me that people don't know what it means but bandy it about anyways.
And 'plethora' is a perfectly cromulent word... ;)
I've never trusted the FDA; heh. What, i'm supposed to think the government is looking out for my best interest? ptah
I'll read up on the BGH thing, I remember hearing something like that before but never seeing the data to back it up. Without some evidence to back it up, I remain skeptical.
If they were going to try and mass-produce carbon copy cattle and market it, I would be worried. That cutting your gene pool down to almost nothing and biodiversity is one of the reasons that life keeps going on. They found that out with the banana; they have a type of smut that has killed most banana plants in south aisa (or at least the type that americans eat the most of) and is gradually making it's way to south america. There's a race to see who can make a banana that's resistant; in a greenhouse or a lab. I wish I could find that article again, it's in a SciAm around here somewhere.
So if they were doing something similar with cattle; I would be worried. But currently they're using it to add traits to herds at a faster pace. And just to satisfy my curiosity, what do you think is 'unsafe' about cloned animals?
I'll let ppl know about garb, but I've been out of the loop for awhile. Working nights and weekends keeps me from playing :(
While I understand why the word bugs you, understand that they are not using it improperly. Words change over time, usually because of context. Look up the etymology of "technology" - means something very different nowadays.
And maybe I'm a rare case, but I only took high school chemistry yet I understand on a basic level what an organic compound is. I don't think it's that people don't know what the word means, I think it's that, for people not in a science field, the context seldom drifts outside of food.
as for plethora, it has NOT evolved to mean anything over than excess, overabundance. And yet people use it to mean "a lot." Gah.
Did you need evidence the first time you got on airplane, too? (Sarcasm.) I suppose I find it odd that you are more inclined to point out that you haven't found evidence that something is dangerous, rather than pointing out that there's not evidence that it's not safe. (Other than the FDA, which I do not trust.) Given the choice, I'll go with safe over sorry. Which extends to the cloning... it's not what I know that bothers me. It everything I *don't* know about it.
Understand, I'm not anti-science, or anti-anything-unnatural. But my choices are entirely subjective when it comes to what I will and will not tolerate in my food. Vegetables grown in a greenhouse (not natural) are okay. GMOs are not. Likewise, barns, watering troughs, that sort of thing, are all clear. But I also use a computer, which has allowed me to research some of what I've written here.
It bugs be because it implies that the food they have been eating for years is somehow 'inorganic' or 'unnatural' when it is nothing of the sort.
The first time I was on an airplane i was 3 days old; I was nervous every time until i learned about fluid mechanics. Once I know the How of something, I can get a clearer picture of what is safe/unsafe; good/bad. Before the How, I remain skeptical.
What I find difficult to understand is *why* people think a clone is somehow different from the original animal. By it's very definition it is an exact replica of that organism at the time it is cloned. If you would eat the original animal; why is the clone any different?
There is very little that we can *know*; to wait for absolutes is to wallow in indecision. I see a lot of things like cloning, gene therapy, stem cell research and other cutting edge bio-sciences run into this brick wall that only seems to exist for biology. You don't see groups protesting CERN when they build a new particle accelerator; why the outcry with cloning?
Or maybe someone did protest the LHC and I just never heard about it, but I doubt it.
It's the classic problem I have with trying to relate to people and wanting to know the how/why they reason the way they do. Which is why I'm as anti-social as I am :( People confuse me to no end.
I hereby you to come up with a word other than organic. :-P
It's true, there is very little we can "know" for sure. My biology teacher hit us in the head with the fact that nothing is ever "proven" in science. I'm fine with that. But nobody here is wallowing in indecision. At least I'm not. I've made the choice that I do not want to eat cloned meat. You have apparently decided it's okay. Fine, good. I'm not trying to convince you not to, I'm simply trying to explain why I won't.
Unfortunately, what it's coming down to is ethics. My ethics tell me, as someone who prefers naturally-grown good that free of pesticides, GMOs, antibiotics, hormones, etc., that cloning is not something I want in my diet. And my diet is one thing I have TOTAL control over, if I choose to. How often do you hear about recalls on Farmers Market food? People dying or getting sick from small farm livestock and poultry? (note that I do not say organic.) Versus all of this: http://www.fda.gov/opacom/7alerts.html in just three months!
And I guess I don't really see the need for cloning. What is it accomplishing that artificial insemination is not? (Yes, I am fine with artificial insemination.)
Humans are curious creatures. That is our advantage and our disadvantage. We like to push the boundaries of what happens in a natural world, and its results can be seen in the world we live in today, be it for better or worse. But we've never been any good at caring about the consequences of our actions.
Again, I'm not anti-technology or science. But I am very wary of any new technology that jumps out and says, "I'm SAFE!" Especially when it's the FDA saying it. So, I'll sit back and let others test out the cloned meat. Maybe in five, ten, twenty years I'll reevaluate. But likely not.
Speed for one. You can introduce traits to a herd faster; ex disease resistance.
So it's less the cloning/tech part and more the asshats that are saying that its okay? that make any sense? if so, who would you trust to say that it's safe? or would that just take time?
You know what, if you're determined not to even try to understand my points, then this is a dead-end discussion. Did that part about ethics make no sense?
How about this: you eat the cloned stuff; I won't. If one of us dies from the shit we eat, the other gets to do a victory dance on their grave. If we both live, we both pass go and both collect $200. Okay?
I'm trying to understand your points; I want to know the reasoning behind them. This is why I keep asking questions. I'm sorry if this offends your sensibilities somehow.
What gets to me is that out of everything I wrote in my last serious post, you commented on the things I said about not trusting the FDA, which really wasn't the main point. And the ethics, as loaded of a words as it is, are the driving point behind everything else. It's as if those beliefs are somehow not as worthy as a scientific explanation. I can quote statistics and facts all day long, but what it comes down to is that don't want certain technologies involved in the production of my food. I prefer my food to be natural. If that reason is not enough, I'm sorry. I don't know what else to say. I'm not trying to convince anyone else to think they way i do; it's just the things I've come to believe in after reading and researching the things I have.
I don't mean to be snippy; I interpret "that make any sense?" as "Do you really think that makes any sense?"
No, it doesn't. Bread is a tricky tricky issue with me - just because it's local doesn't mean they didn't buy their flour at Wal*Mart, a business I do not support. But in most cases these small-scale beef/poultry operations don't even have the budget to deal with such technology. More than just that, there are places that don't WANT to use it, as is the case with most New Mexico ranches and farms. I have visited two of the four places that sell beef at the Market. Unless they're hiding some sort of lab somewhere on the premises, I can assure you there are no clones on those sites.
Even if it's not your cup of tea, I consider myself blessed to live in a town that takes catchphrases like "organic," "sustainable" and "local" seriously. I'm not an "Organic" freak -that is to say, I don't buy something just because it says it's organic. I prefer pesticide-free food, but when it comes down to choosing Local or Organic, I go with local. Why? Because I know enough of the farmers at the Market to know that although they are not certified organic, they don't use pesticides. Many of them are growing heirloom varieties that have been in their families for sometimes hundreds of years, back to when the Spaniards settled in the area in the early 1600s.
And I beg to differ on the restaurants. Big chains like the Outback or McDonald's or Olive Garden don't, but there are plenty of places here in Santa Fe that use produce and meat from our local farms. The Farm to Restaurant http://www.santafealliance.com/farmrestaurant.php
and Farm to Table http://www.farmtotable.info/
movement are both prominent here.
Anyway, the reason I'm going on and on is because it's something that is not only important to me, but it's also something I have done a lot of research on. A LOT of research. I make the most educated choices I can when I'm shopping, and there are a million factors that weigh into each one. But like I said, it's something that's important to me, so I'm willing to take the extra time and money to do it.
Reply
Nothing gets my going like 'organic.' You can have organic pesticides; and BGH *is* organic; its made by cows!
Was reading an article the other day about how with the increase in steakhouses; the quality of beef available for consumers has gone down. I'll see if I can find it again.
Ok, so riddle me this; your take is on the local angle (which is a good idea; the homogenizing of america pisses me off), what would you think of 'cloned' cattle coming from one of your local places? Right now the cost is prohibitive, but eventually it won't be. Just look at IVF and how bull sperm has turned into a commodity.
Reply
I was the one who jumped into bread, but I just wanted to make the point that "local" doesn't necessarily mean more natural.
My boyfriend has the same issue with the word organic. Maybe they could have found a better term to use, but I think what most people like myself are looking for in that label are a) foods that are natural (i.e. free of harmful pesticides, GMOs, etc.) and b) an opportunity to shop ethically.
Don't worry if you can't find the article; I've read enough on this topic to make me seriously ill toward mainstream grocers. I don't simply don't understand why they've made their vegetables in every way superior EXCEPT in taste.
If you're at all curious, one of the books that encapsulates my feelings on these issues is Barbara Kingsolver's "Animal, Vegetable, Miracle." or "This Organic Life" by Joan Dye Gussow. Or "Shattering: Food, politics, and the Loss of Genetic Variation." Oh, and yes... "Earth in Balance: Ecology and the Human Spirit" by Al Gore.
To answer your question: I wouldn't buy cloned meat. While yes, I try to shop locally, and will do so even if it's not organic, usually the non-organic food I buy comes from farmers who don't use pesticides, but whose operations are not big enough to justify the cost of organic certification. I just can't see anything natural in cloning. And luckily, I think I'll always have another option. A lot of farmers don't just raise natural livestock because it's the trend; they believe in a natural and ethical way of providing meat to the public. Now, that doesn't mean the cows are getting scratched behind the ears every day, but at least they're living on pasture lands and eating grasses instead of corn.
Basically, I look at it like this: every time I make a purchase - not just for food - I am casting a vote. I'm voting to support a company, be they good or evil. I'm voting for the ethics of that company, I'm voting for the sort of community I want to live in, and I'm voting for the sort of food I want to eat. And these votes are important to me.
Reply
'organic certification?' Maybe I've been out of the loop but when did this happen? who is doing this certification and what's the criteria?
Okay, so we don't eat clones. However, because of the cost of the procedure it seems unlikely that cloned (animal) meat will end up on the market. It appears that the application is more for improved trait selection among breeding herds rather than 'cheap carbon copy meat.' A sort of fast forward button for animal husbandry. Do you feel the same way about uncloned offspring of cloned animals?
Yes, in america you vote with the all(mostly?)mighty dollar; so by all means vote how you feel. I just like to know where people are coming from is all :)
ps - email me the names of those books if you have a chance; if you don't mind terribly
Reply
And yes, products are not allowed to market themselves as officially "Organic" unless they've been certified by the USDA (http://www.ams.usda.gov/nop/indexNet.htm) . It's another tricky issue. Personally, I think the current standards are too loose, and big-farm lobbyists are pushing to loosen them even further. It's also very expensive to be certified, which is why most farmer's market vendors aren't. The standards should be harder but less expensive, thus making organic food available to more people, but... that would make sense.
I'm not sure I entirely understand your last question. You mean clone an animal and then eat its offspring?
I don't mind you asking questions. I like for people to do such, because it helps me reaffirm what I believe in.
Reply
As far as the seed thing, it's the same kind of stuff other companies do (ie Coca-Cola buying all of the water for manufacturing...) and not to sound like i don't believe you but where is that published? Or is it in one of the books?
I think my main bone to pick is that they need another fucking word other than 'organic.' If you can eat it, it's organic dammit. Too many people don't know what the word means so it gets co-opped into a new meaning that has nothing to do with what it *actually* means. *sigh*
As for the cloning thing, yes; thats pretty much what I mean. From what I've read it's way *way* too expensive to just use cloned animals in the food supply. What clones are being used/desired for is adding to a breeding herd. Say you want trait X but all of your breeding stock is very poor at X. You buy a clone embryo (or 2 or 3) that is very good at X and implant it in one of your breeders. Now you have a few clones that are good at X and in the 3rd generation (the clones offspring with the rest of your breeding herd) has the desired trait and is sold to market.
Maybe things just don't work that way but it seems to be the desired goal of using cloned animals; not this Orwellian idea of clones grown in tanks then slaughtered and sold to people.
You want cheap? I'm waiting for my single-celled protein to come in 'porterhouse' :) That'll be an even harder sell than 'cloned' meat.
Reply
I understand why you have an issue with the word organic; but if you're going to have an issue, please also have it with everyone else who uses it, not just the health food people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic
It's not like the consumers picked the word.
But as a writer, I understand your disgruntled-ness over it. If you ever want to see me squirm, just use "plethora" or "whimsical" in a sentence. :-)
I just don't know about the cloning. I really don't feel that it's been around long enough to actually know whether or not it's safe. In reference to something you said way earlier, about the growth hormones... you'll read this in one of the books, too: doctors are becoming concerned about kids going through early puberty; and one of them feels that if a family only switches to one organic thing, it should be milk. I don't really trust the FDA anymore.
I'm not a scientist, so I'm reading what I can about cloning and trying to make sense of it. Maybe one of these days I'll be convinced that it is okay; for now, I'm going to stick to the un-cloned stuff.
And on a completely unrelated note, do you by chance know any females who need garb for Estrella? I'm going to put some of my old stuff up on Ebay here in the next few days... I'll have more details soon, but put the word out if you don't mind.
Reply
And 'plethora' is a perfectly cromulent word... ;)
I've never trusted the FDA; heh. What, i'm supposed to think the government is looking out for my best interest? ptah
I'll read up on the BGH thing, I remember hearing something like that before but never seeing the data to back it up. Without some evidence to back it up, I remain skeptical.
If they were going to try and mass-produce carbon copy cattle and market it, I would be worried. That cutting your gene pool down to almost nothing and biodiversity is one of the reasons that life keeps going on. They found that out with the banana; they have a type of smut that has killed most banana plants in south aisa (or at least the type that americans eat the most of) and is gradually making it's way to south america. There's a race to see who can make a banana that's resistant; in a greenhouse or a lab. I wish I could find that article again, it's in a SciAm around here somewhere.
So if they were doing something similar with cattle; I would be worried. But currently they're using it to add traits to herds at a faster pace. And just to satisfy my curiosity, what do you think is 'unsafe' about cloned animals?
I'll let ppl know about garb, but I've been out of the loop for awhile. Working nights and weekends keeps me from playing :(
Reply
And maybe I'm a rare case, but I only took high school chemistry yet I understand on a basic level what an organic compound is. I don't think it's that people don't know what the word means, I think it's that, for people not in a science field, the context seldom drifts outside of food.
as for plethora, it has NOT evolved to mean anything over than excess, overabundance. And yet people use it to mean "a lot." Gah.
Did you need evidence the first time you got on airplane, too? (Sarcasm.) I suppose I find it odd that you are more inclined to point out that you haven't found evidence that something is dangerous, rather than pointing out that there's not evidence that it's not safe. (Other than the FDA, which I do not trust.) Given the choice, I'll go with safe over sorry. Which extends to the cloning... it's not what I know that bothers me. It everything I *don't* know about it.
Understand, I'm not anti-science, or anti-anything-unnatural. But my choices are entirely subjective when it comes to what I will and will not tolerate in my food. Vegetables grown in a greenhouse (not natural) are okay. GMOs are not. Likewise, barns, watering troughs, that sort of thing, are all clear. But I also use a computer, which has allowed me to research some of what I've written here.
So that's that.
Reply
The first time I was on an airplane i was 3 days old; I was nervous every time until i learned about fluid mechanics. Once I know the How of something, I can get a clearer picture of what is safe/unsafe; good/bad. Before the How, I remain skeptical.
What I find difficult to understand is *why* people think a clone is somehow different from the original animal. By it's very definition it is an exact replica of that organism at the time it is cloned. If you would eat the original animal; why is the clone any different?
There is very little that we can *know*; to wait for absolutes is to wallow in indecision. I see a lot of things like cloning, gene therapy, stem cell research and other cutting edge bio-sciences run into this brick wall that only seems to exist for biology. You don't see groups protesting CERN when they build a new particle accelerator; why the outcry with cloning?
Or maybe someone did protest the LHC and I just never heard about it, but I doubt it.
It's the classic problem I have with trying to relate to people and wanting to know the how/why they reason the way they do. Which is why I'm as anti-social as I am :( People confuse me to no end.
Reply
It's true, there is very little we can "know" for sure. My biology teacher hit us in the head with the fact that nothing is ever "proven" in science. I'm fine with that. But nobody here is wallowing in indecision. At least I'm not. I've made the choice that I do not want to eat cloned meat. You have apparently decided it's okay. Fine, good. I'm not trying to convince you not to, I'm simply trying to explain why I won't.
Unfortunately, what it's coming down to is ethics. My ethics tell me, as someone who prefers naturally-grown good that free of pesticides, GMOs, antibiotics, hormones, etc., that cloning is not something I want in my diet. And my diet is one thing I have TOTAL control over, if I choose to. How often do you hear about recalls on Farmers Market food? People dying or getting sick from small farm livestock and poultry? (note that I do not say organic.) Versus all of this: http://www.fda.gov/opacom/7alerts.html in just three months!
And I guess I don't really see the need for cloning. What is it accomplishing that artificial insemination is not? (Yes, I am fine with artificial insemination.)
Humans are curious creatures. That is our advantage and our disadvantage. We like to push the boundaries of what happens in a natural world, and its results can be seen in the world we live in today, be it for better or worse. But we've never been any good at caring about the consequences of our actions.
Again, I'm not anti-technology or science. But I am very wary of any new technology that jumps out and says, "I'm SAFE!" Especially when it's the FDA saying it. So, I'll sit back and let others test out the cloned meat. Maybe in five, ten, twenty years I'll reevaluate. But likely not.
Reply
So it's less the cloning/tech part and more the asshats that are saying that its okay? that make any sense? if so, who would you trust to say that it's safe? or would that just take time?
Reply
How about this: you eat the cloned stuff; I won't. If one of us dies from the shit we eat, the other gets to do a victory dance on their grave. If we both live, we both pass go and both collect $200. Okay?
Reply
Reply
I don't mean to be snippy; I interpret "that make any sense?" as "Do you really think that makes any sense?"
Reply
Reply
Leave a comment