"Hug" - Questions/Observations?

[xxkaytayxx]

I was just rewatching some episodes from season one, trying to bring someone else into the show, and I sort of noticed something about "Hug" for the first time. At the end when Kyle and Rickman are fighting with their "power of persuasion," Kyle wins and manages to get Rickman to shoot himself, right? Afterwards, Clark runs out, Kyle says that

Comments

[an0ther_dreamer]

Yet another problem I have with this is that Lex has never shown (until he went inexplicably evol, that is) any indication that he would react badly to Clark's secret.

For example, when Lana first sees the Wall of Weird in "Hourglass" she is deeply, personally insulted. She says that when she lost her parents in the meteor shower it was "the most painful moment of [her] life" and she hates that everyone still treats her as "a little girl in a fairy princess costume that lost her parents".

When Lex first sees the WoW in "Craving", he tells Clark about where he was when the meteors fell, how they’re responsible for his baldness and that kids at school thought he was a freak. When Clark says that he's sorry Lex explains that he thinks he's stronger because of it and that "Personally, I think that my futures gonna be brighter than that spoiled, rich brat that walked into that cornfield."

Given there reactions, it's understandable that Clark would want to keep the truth from Lana. But Lex?

When Lana does find out and doesn't react badly it is, IMO, is totally OOC.

[littlehollyleaf]

Lex has never shown (until he went inexplicably evol, that is) any indication that he would react badly to Clark's secret.

Just thought I'd mention I agree with this too. In fact, it's refreshing to have someone just step in and say it :D I've been bogged now with so much CAF nonsense about how Lex was manipulating Clark from the beginning that whenever I think about how Lex was with Clark at the start of the show now my mind automatically incorporates how it can be twisted to evil. Meaning I forget that, for the most part, such an interpretation is A STRETCH. If you're coming at it with no preconceptions Lex really is GENUINELY FRIENDLY and TRUSTWORTHY isn't he?

[an0ther_dreamer]

IMO, Lex (at the beginning) is the most likely of Clarks friends not to react badly.(Possibly barring Chloe who is open to weird things, has been his friend longer and wasn't in Smallville of the day of the meteor shower.)

But Lex understands feeling different, having people treat you as an outsider due to things you can't control and accepts and strives for the truth, no matter how bizarre it may seem.

When kills me is not that Clark doesn't tell Lex his secret, but that he says there's no secret to tell.

I think Lex could respect him saying, "Yes, I have a secret, but I'm not ready to share it and probably never will be. Please accept my decision on this and don't needle me." instead of "What secret? That's crazy!"; an extremely callous remark considering Lex's stint in Belle Reeve and on the Island.

[littlehollyleaf]

When kills me is not that Clark doesn't tell Lex his secret, but that he says there's no secret to tell.

Amen sister. This is the major gripe ALL of us come back to in the end. Essentially, what Clark was saying by the CONSTANT denials (one or two okay, but SV!Clark denied for YEARS) is that everything Lex sees that seems unusual about Clark is crazy delusion and that Lex should take Clark's word over the evidence of his own eyes. This is bad enough on its own, but considering we later learn Lex has had serious struggles with mental illness in the past it becomes down right CRUEL. Clark is deliberately and knowingly fostering a false impression of insanity onto Lex.

Originally, of course, I can buy that Clark didn't realise he was doing this. He prob was young/dumb enough to think Lex was actually BELIEVING his lies and since Lex never called him on them much early on this belief would have seemed to have been supported. After Belle Reve though Clark's lies start becoming inexplicable to me. He SAW FOR HIMSELF that Lex could be trusted with his secret and later that season and the following Lex starts getting impatient with Clark everytime he lies (my fav is in Talisman when they are discussing Clark's interest in the Kawtsche legend and Clark claims 'it's a school project!' - Lex just looks at him, then wipes a hand across his face and shakes his head, as if to say 'whatever, Clark, I am too tired and busy for this shit right now...'), so Clark MUST realise Lex KNOWS he is lying. Ergo, he should realise that the WAY he is lying is sending the wrong impression to the guy.

But no, SV!Clark is not a normal, sensible person, he is a Big Dumb Alien with a variety of mental problems I'm in the process of cataloguing :p

[jakrar]

Amen sister. This is the major gripe ALL of us come back to in the end. Essentially, what Clark was saying by the CONSTANT denials (one or two okay, but SV!Clark denied for YEARS) is that everything Lex sees that seems unusual about Clark is crazy delusion and that Lex should take Clark's word over the evidence of his own eyes. This is bad enough on its own, but considering we later learn Lex has had serious struggles with mental illness in the past it becomes down right CRUEL. Clark is deliberately and knowingly fostering a false impression of insanity onto Lex.

I totally agree with you here. I once suggested that one reason Lex created the 'Chamber of Clark Kent' was as reassurance to himself that he WASN'T crazy -- that he HADN'T imagined all these things, that they really HAD happened. After everything Lex has been through in terms of mental illness and psychotic breaks, how else is he supposed to keep track of what's real and what isn't?

[littlehollyleaf]

I once suggested that one reason Lex created the 'Chamber of Clark Kent' was as reassurance to himself that he WASN'T crazy -- that he HADN'T imagined all these things, that they really HAD happened.

I hadn't thought of that but it makes sense. In the S08 that doesn't exist (:p) Chloe creates a virtual database of her life to remind her of things she keeps forgetting due to Brainiac influence - I can totally see Lex's secret room as something similar.

[jakrar]

When kills me is not that Clark doesn't tell Lex his secret, but that he says there's no secret to tell.

Exactly!

I think Lex could respect him saying, "Yes, I have a secret, but I'm not ready to share it and probably never will be. Please accept my decision on this and don't needle me." instead of "What secret? That's crazy!"; an extremely callous remark considering Lex's stint in Belle Reeve and on the Island.

I could not possibly agree more, and Clark uses that 'crazy' accusation more than once. *spits at Clark*

[greenlady2]

"...I've been bogged now with so much CAF nonsense about how Lex was manipulating Clark from the beginning..."

The problem with this interpretation of Lex's behaviour -- he's manipulating people. He's not sincere. He's an evil sociopath -- is that he's so unsuccessful. Evil, sociopathic manipulators fool people and get them to do what they want. But when did Lex ever get people to do what he wanted? And those few times he did manage such a feat, it was openly. He dealt with the person openly, and forced him or her to do his bidding.

If Lex had manipulated Clark into trusting him, Clark would have completely trusted him and shared his Secret. Lex would have wormed his way into Team Kent, and everyone would have eventually welcomed him. They would have been sharing Thanksgiving Dinner together.

[littlehollyleaf]

he's so unsuccessful

Too true. I guess the CAF argue that's because he's young and hasn't leant how to do it properly yet? Which, of course, kinda brings down their 'Lex was an adult and put too much on ickle Clarkie's kiddie shoulders' arguement.

God, why WHY do people disagree with us when the arguements in our favour just seem so much STRONGER and MORE OBVIOUS?

[greenlady2]

Anyone can argue anything. That doesn't make it true. :-)))

The CAF are the sort of people who would argue black is white:

CAF: Black is white.

Us: No. Black is black. White is white. See? Look at the two colours. This is Black, and this is White.

CAF: But Black is secretly white. Black is manipulating you to think it's black, when all along it's white. It's hiding its true nature under a spurious coating of blackness. But we know the truth. Stare at it long enough, and you'll see. We're right.

Us: Huh? No. No, no, no. Black is black and white is white.

CAF: You people are nuts.

"I guess the CAF argue that's because he's young and hasn't leant how to do it properly yet?"

That's about the size of it. But again, this is Begging the Question. If there is no evidence that Lex is manipulating people and using them, there's no evidence. Case closed. You can't say that he's just not doing it well enough to have any effect, or even to show up at all on the screen.

CAF: Officer, the guy across the hall is a thief.

Officer: Why do you say that? Has he stolen anything? Have you seen him steal snything?

CAF: No, but that's just because he isn't very good at it yet. I know he wants to steal things, but he's young, and inexperienced.

Officer: Here's a number to call. Get some help. This psychiatrist is very kind, and there's no shame in it. Things are pretty tough these days, and we're all under a lot of stress.

CAF: You people are nuts.

[jakrar]

Your examples made me laugh -- and then I realized that it's too true to be properly funny. *shakes head*

[jakrar]

Yet another problem I have with this is that Lex has never shown (until he went inexplicably evol, that is) any indication that he would react badly to Clark's secret.

Exactly! Lex is THRILLED at the idea of aliens in the beginning; it's only after evil Kryptonians and an evil Kryptonian AI have gone around killing lots of innocent human beings that Lex gets soured on aliens. And, personally, I believe that if he'd had a decent, friendly alien to contrast those evil aliens with, Lex's reaction would have been far more balanced than it was.

[littlehollyleaf]

And, personally, I believe that if he'd had a decent, friendly alien to contrast those evil aliens with, Lex's reaction would have been far more balanced than it was.

This just seems SO OBVIOUS to me I don't understand why other people don't see it. Lex was almost strangled by Zod's disciples, manipulated by Brainiac (TWICE!) and possessed by Zod himself - who WOULDN'T think the worst of aliens after that? If Clark had come clean AT ANY POINT before/during that and said 'oh hey, yeah, those guys are evil but I'M NOT WITH THEM' there's nothing in the show to suggest Lex would have been anything but trusting and reasonable with Clark about it. It was BECAUSE Clark lied that Lex was left to assume Clark was as evil as the others.

[an0ther_dreamer]

(Not that I'm likely to dig back this far again and ever see any responses to this...)

For at least some of the time, telling the truth (as he knew it) would mean saying "Hi, I'm an alien and I'm supposed to be acting as the vanguard for an invasion and end up ruling the world. But don't worry, despite the digital ghost of my dead father trying to manipulate me into it, I'm totally not going to go crazy and take over the world. I hope."

[littlehollyleaf]

Yeah, but Lex had discussed with Clark on numerous occassions how he himself was fighting against the manipulations of his own father. I would have thought that would make Clark MORE inclined to speak out about Jor-El and stuff. There's only so many times you can use fear of adverse reactions as an excuse for Clark's silence, surely?

Not that I don't understand the fear. What you're saying is true, Clark wouldn't WANT to admit to being an intended alien invader, but it just seems that on many occassions it would have made life EASIER for him if he told Lex.

(and thanks for dropping by :D)