What's your one true pairing/3/ship of choice/favorite pairing/tripling/orgy/people you sometimes like to see have sex (OTP3SOCFPTOPYSLTSHS)?
Well I've basically got two (in Buffy fandom), Buffy/Spike and Spike/Angel, with a potential OT3 of Buffy/Spike/Angel
What's something you love about it? That Spike gets Buffy, that he loves her. He knows how dark she is, he understands her in a way noone else ever has and he loves her anyway. I love that Buffy believed in him when it mattered. I love her mixture of honesty and denial.
It's an interesting pairing because there's just so much of it, between two very flawed people completing one another.
What's a reason you think these characters are good together? Spike falls in love with people who are strong, powerfull and capable. People he can respect and who can make him submit to them. Buffy is closed off, needs to be the centre of attention and is a total alpha controll freak. She needs someone who puts her first. She needs someone who doesn't mind that she's in charge, but will challenge her authority anyway. (for Spike/Angel, see just about the same reasons, it's the main reason why B/A doesn't work for me as a pairing, they have too many of the same flaws, where as Spike goes well with both Buffy and Angel, because he can deal with those flaws)
What would you say about it if you wanted to try to get someone interested in it?
That it's real, that the issues that make Buffy and Spike interesting are such, because they are internal, because you have the feelings, that once they deal with their issues,many of which they did onscreen, they actually have a lot in common and could be extremely happy together.
Is there any meta/manifesto/discussions you might link to for someone just getting into the pairing? Damn, wish I still had that link to ship manifest... I know there were two great B/S ship manifests up there.
What's a scene in canon that occurs between these two characters you really like (if they met in canon)? Buffy and Spike: Never leave me, Spike tries and make Buffy kill him and she tells him she believes in him. Either that or the end scene of 'Beneath you' Angel and Spike: The end scene of Damage
What's a fic you love that features it? Why do people always ask for this... Too many to count. Currently I'm reading Collide which is a S6 AU where Buffy actually dealt with her issues.
What's a fic you consider a "classic" to it (even if you yourself don't think much of it)? Can't really come up with titles, horriblly bad at such things.
What's a fic you might rec to someone to introduce them to it/romance them into it? bad memory
What's an element you like to see in fics about it? Buffy being a hero, redeeming Buffy from s6, Spike fighting alongside Buffy or getting in trouble. Interactions with the scoobs. In Angel/Spike fics I'm pretty much for dark fics, non-con, slavery, kink, d/s, ... A/S/B fics mostly please me when they have Spike as the emotional center. Hate fics where Spike's just used as a walking dildo for a B/A love fest. Mostly cause I don't buy B/A as a real romance.
What's a fic you've written that features it (if you write fic)? Well, I guess Prisoner could count. Though that one's B/S/A, Beloved is kinda spuffy, even if Buffy's a statue and Spike's a ten year old. Really, sort of.
I guess Man's best friend is pretty much spuffy.
What's one thing you like one of the characters in it to say when they're having wild monkey sex? "I love you"
What's something you dislike about it (the pairing itself, not fandom's treatment of it)? That Buffy became so abusive in s6 and it was hard to keep liking her after the way she treated Spike.
What's something you dislike about the way you percieve fandom views it? Mostly the Spike hatred coming from many B/A-ers and B/X-ers. Well that and the Buffy bashers who have Buffy over apologizing.
What's something that turns up in a lot of fic about it that isn't to your taste?
That too many people turn Buffy into a helpless little girl who needs Spike to solve all her problems for her. If Buffy was half as weak as some fanfic authors like to write her, Spike would never have fallen in love with her.
When Spike is made too pure and good. Spike's an annoying little pest who loves with all his heart. To make him mister Perfect, makes him not Spike and it annoys me.
When other chars are bashed.
And oh yes, when people have Buffy get together with s2 Spike just cause he's hot. Don't see her standing aside while he's killing people. I could see him changing for her, as he did later on. But I hate fics that have this whole 'vampires need to eat too' vibe to them.
A/S/B fics mostly please me when they have Spike as the emotional center.
You know, I'd really love to read a threesome fic in which there's really no center at all (I mean, something longer than a short PWP. I've read some excellent threesome fics there that seem to pay equal attention to everyone). So many I've read seem to want to focus on a ship within the three--or even two ships within the three--or just one character. I can appreciate that, but I'd love to see a threesome dynamic where the emphasis is just as equal as it can be on both characters in a one-on-one shipper fic (and not all shipper fics are like that, of course. Sometimes there is a bias toward one of the characters and bashing of the other within the ship, which just . . . confuses the hell outta me.)
Beloved is kinda spuffy, even if Buffy's a statue and Spike's a ten year old. Really, sort of.
Buh?
That Buffy became so abusive in s6 and it was hard to keep liking her after the way she treated Spike.
I kinda liked the way that played out. Then again, I don't really ship B/S . . . which in no way means I'm not interested in the pairing. I love both their dynamic on the show (how harsh it was in S6) and the way their relationships play out (happy or sad) in fic.
Mostly the Spike hatred coming from many B/A-ers and B/X-ers.
I'm a die hard B/Aer, but I love Spike. One of the main things I dislike about my own ship is all the Spike hating that goes on, and the bashing in the fic . . . either that, or completely ignoring the fact that both Angel and Buffy have Spike issues, and that Buffy cared about him.
That too many people turn Buffy into a helpless little girl who needs Spike to solve all her problems for her. If Buffy was half as weak as some fanfic authors like to write her, Spike would never have fallen in love with her.
This happens in B/A fics all. The. Time. It drives me nuts. I think what it must be is people imposing their own . . . preferences on Buffy and her relationships with her men. I can understand, because I a. identify with Buffy, and b. also identify with the sub, somebody come save me woman stereotype (I wish I didn't. It makes me feel very unfeminist. But it's a preference of mine that goes deeper than my brain.)
But one of the things I like about writing Buffy is pushing all that unfeminist stuff that kinda worries me sometimes out, and writing someone strong and heroic who can take care of herself. It reminds me that no matter what preferences I may have, I don't have to let anyone push me around unless I allow them to do so.
When Spike is made too pure and good. Spike's an annoying little pest who loves with all his heart. To make him mister Perfect, makes him not Spike and it annoys me.
When other chars are bashed.
And oh yes, when people have Buffy get together with s2 Spike just cause he's hot. Don't see her standing aside while he's killing people. I could see him changing for her, as he did later on. But I hate fics that have this whole 'vampires need to eat too' vibe to them.
Great big old 'word' to all three of these.
You don't ask easy questions, do you?
But you get an A+ and a gold star for making your answers so interesting.
You know, I'd really love to read a threesome fic in which there's really no center at all (I mean, something longer than a short PWP. I've read some excellent threesome fics there that seem to pay equal attention to everyone). So many I've read seem to want to focus on a ship within the three--or even two ships within the three--or just one character. I can appreciate that, but I'd love to see a threesome dynamic where the emphasis is just as equal as it can be on both characters in a one-on-one shipper fic (and not all shipper fics are like that, of course. Sometimes there is a bias toward one of the characters and bashing of the other within the ship, which just . . . confuses the hell outta me.)
Oh I actually agree. Just read too many B/S/A fics where all the emotional impact is up on B/A lately. Best threesomes are the ones that are truly a threesome and not just one couple taking in a third.
This happens in B/A fics all. The. Time. It drives me nuts. I think what it must be is people imposing their own . . . preferences on Buffy and her relationships with her men. I can understand, because I a. identify with Buffy, and b. also identify with the sub, somebody come save me woman stereotype (I wish I didn't. It makes me feel very unfeminist. But it's a preference of mine that goes deeper than my brain.)
But one of the things I like about writing Buffy is pushing all that unfeminist stuff that kinda worries me sometimes out, and writing someone strong and heroic who can take care of herself. It reminds me that no matter what preferences I may have, I don't have to let anyone push me around unless I allow them to do so.
Oh I know, it happens in all pairings. I stopped even opening B/X fics cause far too many of them have poor little Buffy needing to be saved by big strong Xander. (yes, I know, not all B/X fics are like that, but a far too great part of them are) It's as if people can't stand the idea of the woman being the hero of the story. As if it takes away from the guy, if she's the one saving him instead of the other way around.
But the thing is, that's Buffy. Wether she goes in to save Xander from bullies, or Spike from a loanshark, she's the hero. She's the one who solves other peoples problems. And I hate to see her lessened. Not to say the guys can't be heroes too or can't help her. But is it so hard to leave Buffy in her worth while doing so?
h I actually agree. Just read too many B/S/A fics where all the emotional impact is up on B/A lately. Best threesomes are the ones that are truly a threesome and not just one couple taking in a third.
Have you read Old Ghosts by chrisleeoctaves? It's an B/S/A fic that doesn't short change any character, imo.
But is it so hard to leave Buffy in her worth while doing so?
I agree. I just think people don't realize that they're doing it. They find the idea of a strong man appealing and exploit their own kinks, instead of remaining true to the characters.
If I had to pick 3, it'd be them. Though every once in a while, B/A/F.
I love her mixture of honesty and denial.
I love the way you put that . . . That's one of the things I love about B/S as well. She wants him but she doesn't want to. She takes sometimes and doesn't give; sometimes she doesn't admit that--sometimes she knows it but just can't admit it. It's a very complicated relationship . . . which often tends to boggle my mind a bit.
it's the main reason why B/A doesn't work for me as a pairing, they have too many of the same flaws, where as Spike goes well with both Buffy and Angel, because he can deal with those flaws)
That's interesting! I completely agree with Buffy and Angel having a lot of the same flaws, but that's kind of why I like to ship them (and it's interesting to note that Angel plays alpha a lot of the time . . . except sometimes--not all the time, but sometimes--with Buffy, Darla, and Cordelia, i.e., the women in his life). But I see what you mean about Spike being able to relate to Buffy in much the same way he relates to Angel . . . I hadn't thought about it much that way before. Thanks for the insight.
I know there were two great B/S ship manifests up there.
I'd love to read them, if you ever remember!
Angel and Spike: The end scene of Damage
Love that scene. But all of S5 has so much A/S goodness, I kinda go into over drive thinking about it.
Currently I'm reading Collide which is a S6 AU where Buffy actually dealt with her issues.
That's interesting! I completely agree with Buffy and Angel having a lot of the same flaws, but that's kind of why I like to ship them (and it's interesting to note that Angel plays alpha a lot of the time . . . except sometimes--not all the time, but sometimes--with Buffy, Darla, and Cordelia, i.e., the women in his life). But I see what you mean about Spike being able to relate to Buffy in much the same way he relates to Angel . . . I hadn't thought about it much that way before. Thanks for the insight.
I guess I see both Buffy and Angel as absolute alphas or doms. Neither of them would let the other top. Well they might for a short while, but they'd get annoyed with it, if it happens too often.
I've just tried several B/A fics recced on my f-list and my main issue always is that Buffy follows Angel's lead. I mean, it's Buffy, she leads, she doesn't follow. And neither does Angel. They'd constantly be fighting for who's in charge and you can't have two drivers in a car. Just my opinion of course.
I guess I see both Buffy and Angel as absolute alphas or doms. Neither of them would let the other top.
What I like about B/A is I don't see that being a big issue. I see sex as a complete sharing experience for them. For them it wouldn't even be "taking turns" . . . it'd be in the moment, you know? Whatever comes for them. And it's not as though they'd always be perfectly in synch--I can see them getting annoyed or arguing over it. But then they'd just go have more sex and it'd be okay.
But that's 'cause I love the ship, you know? And I totally see what you mean, and am not trying to convince you otherwise, because you have a really valid point. Many others feel the same way.
I've just tried several B/A fics recced on my f-list and my main issue always is that Buffy follows Angel's lead.
I have that issue with a lot of B/A fics as well. It drives me a little nuts. If you're interested, I'm going to do a rec list for B/A fics in which Buffy tops or the Buffy,Angel control is more equal. I'm trying to make the list geared specifically toward Spuffy fans (okay, specifically stultiloquentia, because she asked for it. I'll drop you a line when I post it if you want.
Well I've basically got two (in Buffy fandom), Buffy/Spike and Spike/Angel, with a potential OT3 of Buffy/Spike/Angel
What's something you love about it? That Spike gets Buffy, that he loves her. He knows how dark she is, he understands her in a way noone else ever has and he loves her anyway. I love that Buffy believed in him when it mattered. I love her mixture of honesty and denial.
It's an interesting pairing because there's just so much of it, between two very flawed people completing one another.
What's a reason you think these characters are good together?
Spike falls in love with people who are strong, powerfull and capable. People he can respect and who can make him submit to them. Buffy is closed off, needs to be the centre of attention and is a total alpha controll freak. She needs someone who puts her first. She needs someone who doesn't mind that she's in charge, but will challenge her authority anyway. (for Spike/Angel, see just about the same reasons, it's the main reason why B/A doesn't work for me as a pairing, they have too many of the same flaws, where as Spike goes well with both Buffy and Angel, because he can deal with those flaws)
What would you say about it if you wanted to try to get someone interested in it?
That it's real, that the issues that make Buffy and Spike interesting are such, because they are internal, because you have the feelings, that once they deal with their issues,many of which they did onscreen, they actually have a lot in common and could be extremely happy together.
Is there any meta/manifesto/discussions you might link to for someone just getting into the pairing?
Damn, wish I still had that link to ship manifest... I know there were two great B/S ship manifests up there.
What's a scene in canon that occurs between these two characters you really like (if they met in canon)?
Buffy and Spike: Never leave me, Spike tries and make Buffy kill him and she tells him she believes in him. Either that or the end scene of 'Beneath you'
Angel and Spike: The end scene of Damage
What's a fic you love that features it?
Why do people always ask for this... Too many to count. Currently I'm reading Collide which is a S6 AU where Buffy actually dealt with her issues.
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Can't really come up with titles, horriblly bad at such things.
What's a fic you might rec to someone to introduce them to it/romance them into it?
bad memory
What's an element you like to see in fics about it?
Buffy being a hero, redeeming Buffy from s6, Spike fighting alongside Buffy or getting in trouble. Interactions with the scoobs.
In Angel/Spike fics I'm pretty much for dark fics, non-con, slavery, kink, d/s, ...
A/S/B fics mostly please me when they have Spike as the emotional center. Hate fics where Spike's just used as a walking dildo for a B/A love fest. Mostly cause I don't buy B/A as a real romance.
What's a fic you've written that features it (if you write fic)?
Well, I guess Prisoner could count. Though that one's B/S/A, Beloved is kinda spuffy, even if Buffy's a statue and Spike's a ten year old. Really, sort of.
I guess Man's best friend is pretty much spuffy.
What's one thing you like one of the characters in it to say when they're having wild monkey sex?
"I love you"
What's something you dislike about it (the pairing itself, not fandom's treatment of it)?
That Buffy became so abusive in s6 and it was hard to keep liking her after the way she treated Spike.
What's something you dislike about the way you percieve fandom views it?
Mostly the Spike hatred coming from many B/A-ers and B/X-ers. Well that and the Buffy bashers who have Buffy over apologizing.
What's something that turns up in a lot of fic about it that isn't to your taste?
That too many people turn Buffy into a helpless little girl who needs Spike to solve all her problems for her. If Buffy was half as weak as some fanfic authors like to write her, Spike would never have fallen in love with her.
When Spike is made too pure and good. Spike's an annoying little pest who loves with all his heart. To make him mister Perfect, makes him not Spike and it annoys me.
When other chars are bashed.
And oh yes, when people have Buffy get together with s2 Spike just cause he's hot. Don't see her standing aside while he's killing people. I could see him changing for her, as he did later on. But I hate fics that have this whole 'vampires need to eat too' vibe to them.
You don't ask easy questions, do you?
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I love that in any fic.
A/S/B fics mostly please me when they have Spike as the emotional center.
You know, I'd really love to read a threesome fic in which there's really no center at all (I mean, something longer than a short PWP. I've read some excellent threesome fics there that seem to pay equal attention to everyone). So many I've read seem to want to focus on a ship within the three--or even two ships within the three--or just one character. I can appreciate that, but I'd love to see a threesome dynamic where the emphasis is just as equal as it can be on both characters in a one-on-one shipper fic (and not all shipper fics are like that, of course. Sometimes there is a bias toward one of the characters and bashing of the other within the ship, which just . . . confuses the hell outta me.)
Beloved is kinda spuffy, even if Buffy's a statue and Spike's a ten year old. Really, sort of.
Buh?
That Buffy became so abusive in s6 and it was hard to keep liking her after the way she treated Spike.
I kinda liked the way that played out. Then again, I don't really ship B/S . . . which in no way means I'm not interested in the pairing. I love both their dynamic on the show (how harsh it was in S6) and the way their relationships play out (happy or sad) in fic.
Mostly the Spike hatred coming from many B/A-ers and B/X-ers.
I'm a die hard B/Aer, but I love Spike. One of the main things I dislike about my own ship is all the Spike hating that goes on, and the bashing in the fic . . . either that, or completely ignoring the fact that both Angel and Buffy have Spike issues, and that Buffy cared about him.
That too many people turn Buffy into a helpless little girl who needs Spike to solve all her problems for her. If Buffy was half as weak as some fanfic authors like to write her, Spike would never have fallen in love with her.
This happens in B/A fics all. The. Time. It drives me nuts. I think what it must be is people imposing their own . . . preferences on Buffy and her relationships with her men. I can understand, because I a. identify with Buffy, and b. also identify with the sub, somebody come save me woman stereotype (I wish I didn't. It makes me feel very unfeminist. But it's a preference of mine that goes deeper than my brain.)
But one of the things I like about writing Buffy is pushing all that unfeminist stuff that kinda worries me sometimes out, and writing someone strong and heroic who can take care of herself. It reminds me that no matter what preferences I may have, I don't have to let anyone push me around unless I allow them to do so.
When Spike is made too pure and good. Spike's an annoying little pest who loves with all his heart. To make him mister Perfect, makes him not Spike and it annoys me.
When other chars are bashed.
And oh yes, when people have Buffy get together with s2 Spike just cause he's hot. Don't see her standing aside while he's killing people. I could see him changing for her, as he did later on. But I hate fics that have this whole 'vampires need to eat too' vibe to them.
Great big old 'word' to all three of these.
You don't ask easy questions, do you?
But you get an A+ and a gold star for making your answers so interesting.
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Oh I actually agree. Just read too many B/S/A fics where all the emotional impact is up on B/A lately. Best threesomes are the ones that are truly a threesome and not just one couple taking in a third.
This happens in B/A fics all. The. Time. It drives me nuts. I think what it must be is people imposing their own . . . preferences on Buffy and her relationships with her men. I can understand, because I a. identify with Buffy, and b. also identify with the sub, somebody come save me woman stereotype (I wish I didn't. It makes me feel very unfeminist. But it's a preference of mine that goes deeper than my brain.)
But one of the things I like about writing Buffy is pushing all that unfeminist stuff that kinda worries me sometimes out, and writing someone strong and heroic who can take care of herself. It reminds me that no matter what preferences I may have, I don't have to let anyone push me around unless I allow them to do so.
Oh I know, it happens in all pairings. I stopped even opening B/X fics cause far too many of them have poor little Buffy needing to be saved by big strong Xander.
(yes, I know, not all B/X fics are like that, but a far too great part of them are)
It's as if people can't stand the idea of the woman being the hero of the story. As if it takes away from the guy, if she's the one saving him instead of the other way around.
But the thing is, that's Buffy. Wether she goes in to save Xander from bullies, or Spike from a loanshark, she's the hero. She's the one who solves other peoples problems. And I hate to see her lessened. Not to say the guys can't be heroes too or can't help her. But is it so hard to leave Buffy in her worth while doing so?
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Have you read Old Ghosts by chrisleeoctaves? It's an B/S/A fic that doesn't short change any character, imo.
But is it so hard to leave Buffy in her worth while doing so?
I agree. I just think people don't realize that they're doing it. They find the idea of a strong man appealing and exploit their own kinks, instead of remaining true to the characters.
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If I had to pick 3, it'd be them. Though every once in a while, B/A/F.
I love her mixture of honesty and denial.
I love the way you put that . . . That's one of the things I love about B/S as well. She wants him but she doesn't want to. She takes sometimes and doesn't give; sometimes she doesn't admit that--sometimes she knows it but just can't admit it. It's a very complicated relationship . . . which often tends to boggle my mind a bit.
it's the main reason why B/A doesn't work for me as a pairing, they have too many of the same flaws, where as Spike goes well with both Buffy and Angel, because he can deal with those flaws)
That's interesting! I completely agree with Buffy and Angel having a lot of the same flaws, but that's kind of why I like to ship them (and it's interesting to note that Angel plays alpha a lot of the time . . . except sometimes--not all the time, but sometimes--with Buffy, Darla, and Cordelia, i.e., the women in his life). But I see what you mean about Spike being able to relate to Buffy in much the same way he relates to Angel . . . I hadn't thought about it much that way before. Thanks for the insight.
I know there were two great B/S ship manifests up there.
I'd love to read them, if you ever remember!
Angel and Spike: The end scene of Damage
Love that scene. But all of S5 has so much A/S goodness, I kinda go into over drive thinking about it.
Currently I'm reading Collide which is a S6 AU where Buffy actually dealt with her issues.
Nice. Who is it by?
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That's interesting! I completely agree with Buffy and Angel having a lot of the same flaws, but that's kind of why I like to ship them (and it's interesting to note that Angel plays alpha a lot of the time . . . except sometimes--not all the time, but sometimes--with Buffy, Darla, and Cordelia, i.e., the women in his life). But I see what you mean about Spike being able to relate to Buffy in much the same way he relates to Angel . . . I hadn't thought about it much that way before. Thanks for the insight.
I guess I see both Buffy and Angel as absolute alphas or doms. Neither of them would let the other top. Well they might for a short while, but they'd get annoyed with it, if it happens too often.
I've just tried several B/A fics recced on my f-list and my main issue always is that Buffy follows Angel's lead. I mean, it's Buffy, she leads, she doesn't follow. And neither does Angel. They'd constantly be fighting for who's in charge and you can't have two drivers in a car. Just my opinion of course.
I'd love to read them, if you ever remember!
Found them:
http://www.livejournal.com/community/ship_manifesto/8576.html
http://www.livejournal.com/community/ship_manifesto/31107.html
And where Collide is concerned, you can find it at the crypt.
http://home.att.net/~lubakmetyk/crypt.htm#collide
It's by enigmatic blue
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What I like about B/A is I don't see that being a big issue. I see sex as a complete sharing experience for them. For them it wouldn't even be "taking turns" . . . it'd be in the moment, you know? Whatever comes for them. And it's not as though they'd always be perfectly in synch--I can see them getting annoyed or arguing over it. But then they'd just go have more sex and it'd be okay.
But that's 'cause I love the ship, you know? And I totally see what you mean, and am not trying to convince you otherwise, because you have a really valid point. Many others feel the same way.
I've just tried several B/A fics recced on my f-list and my main issue always is that Buffy follows Angel's lead.
I have that issue with a lot of B/A fics as well. It drives me a little nuts. If you're interested, I'm going to do a rec list for B/A fics in which Buffy tops or the Buffy,Angel control is more equal. I'm trying to make the list geared specifically toward Spuffy fans (okay, specifically stultiloquentia, because she asked for it. I'll drop you a line when I post it if you want.
Thanks a billion times over for the links!
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