Jehovah! Jehovah! Oooooo stone her!
I just had a lovely visit by a couple of jehovah's witnesses :) I ran in to them last friday, and didn't have time to talk, so I gave them my address and told them to come and see me! I find it really facinating. My favourite christian doctrine is the doctrine of the Trinity, which they don't believe in. It makes for some very interesting conversations. I must admit, I like talking to Jehovah's witnesses more than mormons!
Firstly, we talked about the name of God, and they how they call him Jehovah while we call him LORD, God or Father. They said that Jehovah is Gods personal name, and that we wouldn't like it if we called each other girl or woman. Granted, thats true. But then I asked them if they knew that when we call the LORD 'LORD', thats equal to us saying Yahweh (God's name in Hebrew)and that we only say LORD because people are unsure of what vowels are supposed to go in his name, and that we don't want to get it wrong. (For those who are interested, hebrew scholars today can only guess that the sounds 'ah' and 'ay' were originally used. Jews stopped recording the vowels out of reverance and fear of misuse; יהוה, and when the language was no longer spoken the original pronunciantion was lost. At first different vowels were used and they came up with the name 'lehovah' or Jehovah. This has since been deemed inaccurate, and most scholars agree that Yahweh is probably closer to the original.) They ended up agreeing that, yes, Christians can call God LORD or Yahweh, and that because God can read the hearts of man, he knows that we mean his personal name.
I then asked about their translation of John 1:1 and John 1:14. The NIV translation is 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning' v1, and "the Word became flesh, and made his dwelling among us' v14. Their translation is 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a God. He was with God in the beginning'. They put 'a' before God. They say that Jesus and God can't be one becuase it's not logical to think that two seperate persons can both be God. I agreed that God is not always logical, and that humans can't always understand Him because we are.. Human! I then asked them "If you translate this passage as 'the word was a God' does that not then mean that you are effectively worshipping two Gods and are really polytheistic not monotheistic?" They said that they only believe in one God, Jehovah, and that they honour Jesus because God sent him to die for us. That he is a 'god' in the same way that satan is a 'god' of this world (2 Cor 4:4). That is, something that people of this age worship. I then said "But God has told us 'you are to have no other Gods before me' and 'I the LORD your God am a jealous God', so isn't worshipping someone else who is not God idolatry?" To which they said "are you sure you havn't talked to Jehovahs Witnesses a lot before?" and I said "a little, but mainly I try to understand the bible and take it seriously".
I then asked them to explain how, if Jesus wasn't God, it is just for God to send an innocent third party to die. And they said that they had to go.
But someone is coming back to see me on the weekend. Yay! I also need to ask them how Jesus' death is sufficient to atone for the sins of everyone in the world past and present, if he wasn't God. In the OT, the death of one animal can pay for one man's sin, or in the case of the Sin offering on the Day of Atonement, one animal is suffient for the Jewish community for one year. If Jesus were just a man, How could his death atone for everyone, for all time?
Anyway, I have many more things to ask them, but i won't go through them now. Isn't defending the faith fun? Why yes lise, it is!
Firstly, we talked about the name of God, and they how they call him Jehovah while we call him LORD, God or Father. They said that Jehovah is Gods personal name, and that we wouldn't like it if we called each other girl or woman. Granted, thats true. But then I asked them if they knew that when we call the LORD 'LORD', thats equal to us saying Yahweh (God's name in Hebrew)and that we only say LORD because people are unsure of what vowels are supposed to go in his name, and that we don't want to get it wrong. (For those who are interested, hebrew scholars today can only guess that the sounds 'ah' and 'ay' were originally used. Jews stopped recording the vowels out of reverance and fear of misuse; יהוה, and when the language was no longer spoken the original pronunciantion was lost. At first different vowels were used and they came up with the name 'lehovah' or Jehovah. This has since been deemed inaccurate, and most scholars agree that Yahweh is probably closer to the original.) They ended up agreeing that, yes, Christians can call God LORD or Yahweh, and that because God can read the hearts of man, he knows that we mean his personal name.
I then asked about their translation of John 1:1 and John 1:14. The NIV translation is 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning' v1, and "the Word became flesh, and made his dwelling among us' v14. Their translation is 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a God. He was with God in the beginning'. They put 'a' before God. They say that Jesus and God can't be one becuase it's not logical to think that two seperate persons can both be God. I agreed that God is not always logical, and that humans can't always understand Him because we are.. Human! I then asked them "If you translate this passage as 'the word was a God' does that not then mean that you are effectively worshipping two Gods and are really polytheistic not monotheistic?" They said that they only believe in one God, Jehovah, and that they honour Jesus because God sent him to die for us. That he is a 'god' in the same way that satan is a 'god' of this world (2 Cor 4:4). That is, something that people of this age worship. I then said "But God has told us 'you are to have no other Gods before me' and 'I the LORD your God am a jealous God', so isn't worshipping someone else who is not God idolatry?" To which they said "are you sure you havn't talked to Jehovahs Witnesses a lot before?" and I said "a little, but mainly I try to understand the bible and take it seriously".
I then asked them to explain how, if Jesus wasn't God, it is just for God to send an innocent third party to die. And they said that they had to go.
But someone is coming back to see me on the weekend. Yay! I also need to ask them how Jesus' death is sufficient to atone for the sins of everyone in the world past and present, if he wasn't God. In the OT, the death of one animal can pay for one man's sin, or in the case of the Sin offering on the Day of Atonement, one animal is suffient for the Jewish community for one year. If Jesus were just a man, How could his death atone for everyone, for all time?
Anyway, I have many more things to ask them, but i won't go through them now. Isn't defending the faith fun? Why yes lise, it is!