Thoughts on trade work.

[lenstalk]

 Well, I've been avoiding this kind of post for a bit but it's a necessary thing to talk about when it comes to photographing models.  The dreaded topic of TFP or TFCD.  It stands for "trade for print" or "trade for cd".  It's origin is in the idea that a model and a photographer whom wish to work together to create images that are of mutual

Comments

[vyl8]

For those types of people out there who think little of the value of another persons talents, labor, and skill; there is truly no greater insult to a creative person than to attempt to butter their ego with compliments and accolades of wonderment while trying to get them to work with you only to vanish into the night leaving a mere poof of dust when the subject of compensation is brought up.

I must bring up that they must present the terms of payment up front and not 15 messages later. As soon as talk of work, it must be, "here are my rates" not well, maybe we can meet and I will decide later whether to charge you or not.

I actually had this happen to me tonight. I was in conversation with a local photographer who contacted me first about collaborating and he had all these great ideas he wants to discuss with me. There were some decent pics in his port, so I replied that I was interested. Generally, as long as someone can use light properly, I can usually create some decent pictures with them. 15 messages later he springs on me that he has "reasonable rates" and don't be disappointed if he meets me and decides he won't do TFP. I was pretty insulted.

Basically, I think going into the meeting both parties should know what is being exchanged and the purpose of the meeting (if there has to be one) is to decide what will happen in the shoot/if the two people can work together on a photographer/model level. My stay in NYC is completely booked with (mostly paid) modeling gigs and not one of those photographers said they needed to meet me in order to decide what the exchange rate should be. The time that I could have theoretically spent with this guy deciding whether or not to charge me I could be either trading with someone who can build my portfolio or getting paid by someone who wants me for their portfolio. And I see it the same way for a photographer. I am sure they do not want to go to a meeting with a model where she hems and haws over if she will trade or charge. Makes me wonder how he would feel if I told him that I only accept a limited amount of Tests/TFP/TFCD (which is true) and at the meeting I was going to decide whether to slap him with my rates or not.

Professionalism, indecisiveness, and lack of discipline.

[lenstalk]

Thanks for offering insight into your experience. I agree, it's ridiculous to hold off on that kind of decision until well into dialogue with whomever we're communicating with. A portfolio of either the photographer or the model should easily demonstrate right up front whether a shoot shall be approached as trade or paid. It really isn't too much of a stretch to be able to gaudge upon review whether someone's work is on par with your own or of lesser or greater quality. Those are very basic things that can be easily seen right away. Granted those are highly subjective things, i.e. what the hell is quality? Who defines what is quality in another persons work?

That's just it. The very thing that is subjective is still a point of decisiveness if you know how to look at it. Is the photographer looking for a goth model? Maybe the model has images that suck from a technical aspect, i.e. lighting, etc. but has a look that is obviously good for the part. Offering a trade shoot to this model could be a serious bump for the model's portfolio while the photographer gets that right casting result out of it. In some cases, if the model is just not available for TF* work for a variety of reasons, it could be worth it to offer payment if it's that necessary for the photographer (perhaps they are developing a pitch to a publication that is time sensative, etc.) Could be the same the other way around. A photographer who sucks at lighting but has a real talent for story telling and creative composition could compell a really good model with a great portfolio from a technical standpoint to work with them, perhaps helping them develop technically just based on their own experience.

This gets back into what I was saying before about relative gain in my original post. What is the gain to the other party? How does each party gain on a mutual level? Each one should be getting a bump up by the experience no matter what the fundamental motivation is for working together. If that gain is of equal value among them then you have a great TF* situation. If it's, "meh, so so...maybe we could do something decent.", then perhaps a different kind of conversation needs to be had.

Anyway, either party should be doing enough review up front before carrying out any discussion about ideas and execution of a shoot. I think there should be some sense of what type of committment is on the table before all that happens. I do my best to throw that out there right up front if possible. I often get approached by models, review their work, then determine that they are not really able to bring anything to my work that I have not already achieved. In that case I offer my rates. Often this is met with silence....not even a reply.

On the flipside, I might see someone that may not have a look that blows me away but demonstrates to me that they have talent in some other way like conceptual thought, creative ideas, genuine interest in visual art and participation in that process. This is actually something I'm very fond of and admittedly have a soft spot for, likely to sway me into a TF* shoot.

Ok, gotta run. Sorry this was long winded and maybe hard to read. Wrote it fast.

Re: Professionalism, indecisiveness, and lack of discipline.

[vyl8]

I can completely understand a photographer giving a models his or her rates and I can tell we see it the same way-- rates and the type of exchange should be discussed in the beginning rather than "oh, by the way. . . "