(no subject)
the other day, i was engaged in heated debate with nick and sam on the topic of "infinity" and the universe.
here are the two points:
Their point: While adhering to the belief that the universe is infinite, and there are an infinite number of possibilities that could be realized in the universe, anything that CAN happen WILL happen.
My point: While adhering to the belief that the universe is infinite, and there are an infinite number of possibilities that could be realized in this universe, just because something CAN happen DOES NOT MEAN IT WILL HAPPEN.
for the sake of this argument, they are arguing for a world where everything is 100% identical to our own, but everbody speaks spanish.
they say that it MUST exist, while i say that it COULD, but also COULD NOT.
bare with me, i know you wont discover my point in the following but read it anyway, it will help reinforce what im trying to say later on.
oh yea, and all numbers are used to represent a different world that could exist, and for the sake of our argument, nick and sam's spanish speaking world is the number 5. keep this in mind.
my most basic of arguments was the following relation to simple math (each number will represent a different "world" that could possibly exist.:
an infinite set of numbers does not need to contain every number that you and i know to exist.
take for example, the set shown below:
2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 ...
this set of numbers stretches on infinitely containing only even numbers, no odd number is present in this set, yet it is still an infinite set, with an infinite number of possibilities.
that is the key phrase here.
still an infinite set with an infinite number of possibilities.
even with 5, and every odd number for that matter excluded, the set STILL contains an infinite number of possibilities, 5 just happened to not be added to the set.
now your probably saying "WELL YEA BUT THAT ONLY WORKS BECAUSE YOU PURPOSELY EXCLUDED 5 (aka spanish world) FROM THE SET, OF COURSE ITS NEVER GOING TO BE CHOSEN.
and i will address this now:
the infinite set represents the universe, and the numbers in it represent the worlds.
to form the universe and its worlds, we will pick numbers at random from an infinite source, for an infinite amount of time and add them to the set. thus "creating the world" so to speak. because when the number is added to the set, it is added to our "universe".
do not read any further unless you understand what i just said.
this is the key here, you need to understand that since we have an infinite number of numbers to choose from, there is nothing to say 5 will EVER be chosen, nor does it ever need to be given ANY CHANCE AT ALL to be chosen.
this article will help you understand what im about to say.
and yes i did search for this to help prove my point. you should read it before you go any further http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/55871.html
as you can see, an infinite number of monkeys typing for an infinite number of time would eventually bust out the works of shakespear, and although the probability of it happening is ASTRONOMICALLY SMALL it WILL EVENTUALLY HAPPEN.
however, this is ONLY BECAUSE THE WORKS OF SHAKESPEAR ARE FINITE.
quite the contrary to the infinite number of our possible worlds.
even with a finite source, you noticed how long it would have taken the monkeys to write shakespear, with an infinite source to draw from however, the amount of time it could take for the number 5 to be chosen could technically be infinity, meaning it will never be chosen, and even if its not chosen, you still have an infinite set of numbers.
in other words, even without your spanish speaking world, you still have an infinite number of other worlds in an infinately large universe
your mindset is that if you keep picking, you will eventually get the number 5, and since you will be picking for an infinite amount of time, it only seems logical to assume 5 would eventually be chosen.
this would be true, if the numbers that we were picking from were finite in amount, but they are not. 5 could very easily be chosen, this much is true.
but it could JUST AS EASILY be ignored for the entire infinite amount of time we are choosing.
it all comes down to the fact that there are an infinite number of possibilities.
ok now i know this is not perfect, and you will probably be able to pick a flaw with this. i probably left something out or didnt explain something good enough. if you do want to debate just comment, i like the challenge of trying to address it.
OH YEA, and parts of it are bold because i wanted to differentiate between my narration and actual explanations, dont think that i copied it from some website that had bold text or anything like that.
here are the two points:
Their point: While adhering to the belief that the universe is infinite, and there are an infinite number of possibilities that could be realized in the universe, anything that CAN happen WILL happen.
My point: While adhering to the belief that the universe is infinite, and there are an infinite number of possibilities that could be realized in this universe, just because something CAN happen DOES NOT MEAN IT WILL HAPPEN.
for the sake of this argument, they are arguing for a world where everything is 100% identical to our own, but everbody speaks spanish.
they say that it MUST exist, while i say that it COULD, but also COULD NOT.
bare with me, i know you wont discover my point in the following but read it anyway, it will help reinforce what im trying to say later on.
oh yea, and all numbers are used to represent a different world that could exist, and for the sake of our argument, nick and sam's spanish speaking world is the number 5. keep this in mind.
my most basic of arguments was the following relation to simple math (each number will represent a different "world" that could possibly exist.:
an infinite set of numbers does not need to contain every number that you and i know to exist.
take for example, the set shown below:
2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 ...
this set of numbers stretches on infinitely containing only even numbers, no odd number is present in this set, yet it is still an infinite set, with an infinite number of possibilities.
that is the key phrase here.
still an infinite set with an infinite number of possibilities.
even with 5, and every odd number for that matter excluded, the set STILL contains an infinite number of possibilities, 5 just happened to not be added to the set.
now your probably saying "WELL YEA BUT THAT ONLY WORKS BECAUSE YOU PURPOSELY EXCLUDED 5 (aka spanish world) FROM THE SET, OF COURSE ITS NEVER GOING TO BE CHOSEN.
and i will address this now:
the infinite set represents the universe, and the numbers in it represent the worlds.
to form the universe and its worlds, we will pick numbers at random from an infinite source, for an infinite amount of time and add them to the set. thus "creating the world" so to speak. because when the number is added to the set, it is added to our "universe".
do not read any further unless you understand what i just said.
this is the key here, you need to understand that since we have an infinite number of numbers to choose from, there is nothing to say 5 will EVER be chosen, nor does it ever need to be given ANY CHANCE AT ALL to be chosen.
this article will help you understand what im about to say.
and yes i did search for this to help prove my point. you should read it before you go any further http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/55871.html
as you can see, an infinite number of monkeys typing for an infinite number of time would eventually bust out the works of shakespear, and although the probability of it happening is ASTRONOMICALLY SMALL it WILL EVENTUALLY HAPPEN.
however, this is ONLY BECAUSE THE WORKS OF SHAKESPEAR ARE FINITE.
quite the contrary to the infinite number of our possible worlds.
even with a finite source, you noticed how long it would have taken the monkeys to write shakespear, with an infinite source to draw from however, the amount of time it could take for the number 5 to be chosen could technically be infinity, meaning it will never be chosen, and even if its not chosen, you still have an infinite set of numbers.
in other words, even without your spanish speaking world, you still have an infinite number of other worlds in an infinately large universe
your mindset is that if you keep picking, you will eventually get the number 5, and since you will be picking for an infinite amount of time, it only seems logical to assume 5 would eventually be chosen.
this would be true, if the numbers that we were picking from were finite in amount, but they are not. 5 could very easily be chosen, this much is true.
but it could JUST AS EASILY be ignored for the entire infinite amount of time we are choosing.
it all comes down to the fact that there are an infinite number of possibilities.
ok now i know this is not perfect, and you will probably be able to pick a flaw with this. i probably left something out or didnt explain something good enough. if you do want to debate just comment, i like the challenge of trying to address it.
OH YEA, and parts of it are bold because i wanted to differentiate between my narration and actual explanations, dont think that i copied it from some website that had bold text or anything like that.