Crecy, without the cut

Jul 25, 2015 11:00

OK. That didn't work. I'll try it without the cut.

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crecy ; hundred years' war

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learnsslowly July 25 2015, 20:28:36 UTC
I think we can assume that Edward would be looking from about the height of the first photos if/ when he wanted to see what was going on, since it was very obvious how very much less one would be seeing from the ground. Even if he were at ground level, on a horse, he would see more than on foot and the distances were such that he could in any case have received speedy reports from someone up the windmill.
The story that came over very well in the very interesting museum in Crecy itself was that English and Welsh troops were well rested and had been in position since the night before. Philip's forces had marched from Abbeville, a matter of 20 or so miles, with Genoese crossbow men arriving first. Their shields and spare bolts seem to have been in the the baggage train, which could be as much as 5 or 6 miles back. The Genoese rather sensibly attempted to keep out of longbow range and not engage, but were pushed on by the sheer numbers of mounted French young noblemen behind. Once they were pushed into longbow range, and forward enough to put the English and Welsh forces into their crossbow range it all became, as amazon_ahoy says, rather nasty.

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amazon_ahoy July 26 2015, 04:19:16 UTC
Another factor that needs to be considered is that, while medieval crossbows could shoot faster than a lot of people think, they were still slower than a longbow. A hand-spanned crossbow could probably shoot five or six bolts in a minute but had a short range. A windlass bow, which equalled the longbow in range and was a bit better at penetrating armour, could probably only manage one. I started shooting the longbow in my 30s and don't do much more than the occasional weekend session knocking around in the back field, and I can still get off 13 arrows in a minute for a short period.

Yes, medieval bows were much heavier than mine, but medieval archers were much stronger than I am. They could each loose a dozen arrows a minute for the first two or three minutes of the French attack; the result was literally a storm of arrows. I've read in a reliable source that Henry V's army, in the initial stages of Agincourt, was putting more kinetic energy downrange every minute than the guns of a First World War battleship. At Crecy there were almost twice as many archers.

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heliopausa July 26 2015, 10:49:22 UTC
This is all very interesting info! How many arrows would an archer carry with them? Were there runners re-supplying from the rear?

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amazon_ahoy July 26 2015, 11:00:20 UTC
Arrow production and distribution was industrial. There were no fancy Robin Hood-style quivers or anything like that. Hundreds of thousands of arrows were shipped over from England and hauled around on the army's supply carts. They were packed in sheaves of 24, usually four or six flight arrows to a sheaf and the rest of them heavy "livery" arrows. Each sheaf came in a linen bag with a perforated leather disk to prevent the fletches getting crushed, and the bag closed with drawcords at each end. Archers would usually carry two or three sheaves, with at least one of them stuck in his belt for easy access. During a battle servants and boys would bring fresh supplies from the carts. Running out of arrows wasn't uncommon though. At Crecy the archers scavenged the battlefield for intact arrows between French attacks.

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amazon_ahoy July 26 2015, 11:05:21 UTC
Here's what an arrow bag looks like:

http://amazon-ahoy.livejournal.com/641.html

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heliopausa July 26 2015, 11:18:31 UTC
That's fascinating! Thank you! :)

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amazon_ahoy July 26 2015, 11:56:21 UTC
learnsslowly July 26 2015, 11:15:59 UTC
They were quoting 12 arrows a minute in the display in the museum, so I am duly impressed. Also, thank you for the picture of the arrow bag; there wasn't one in the little museum, although there was a rather useful display of different arrow types.

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amazon_ahoy July 26 2015, 11:21:53 UTC
I do have to stress that although my biggest bow LOOKS just like a medieval one the difference in power is immense. Mine's hickory-backed lemonwood with a purpleheart core; it will last a lot longer than a yew bow, but it has nothing like the power. It draws 60lb; a yew stave with the same dimensions would be around 140lb. Medieval archers were immensely strong but even they could only keep up twelve shots a minute for a very short time. Six to eight was more realistic for sustained shooting.

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heliopausa July 26 2015, 10:47:24 UTC
ah...I hadn't been sure that the windmill was contemporary with the battle.
That's such an unhappy story - not unusual for battle stories, of course. :(

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learnsslowly July 26 2015, 11:20:59 UTC
The rest of that bit of the story is even more depressing.

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