(no subject)
I’ve become entangled in a nasty exchange between Liza and Nancy, a one-time mentor and sometime friend of Liza's.
Last night, when Ivan, in a playful moment, called Liza and she burst into tears, he quickly handed off to me and I listened, fully expecting to burst into Mama-Bear mode.
But I didn’t, though I ended up being mightily distracted by what I read when I got home (see below). And I’ve been thinking about it all day.
Oh, the joys of being an Analyst. (It doesn’t shut down when one goes home.)
So, some random thoughts on the following imbroglio, and how I see it:
* * *
Nancy,
You've always been a wonderful friend and mentor. I've learned a lot about writing/authorship and leadership in general over the past few years. I really care about our friendship and for the region and what we do for NaNoWriMo as a whole. It lets me serve in a way I don't get to do very often right now.
That being said, your email about the Write in Motion left me feeling a mix of things, none of them particularly pleasant. I read through your decisions and I feel demoralized and superfluous. I feel angry. I actually felt that way on Sunday, but in true Liz-fashion I sat on it until I could talk with others and analyze it. "Anger is the shortest path to a mistake," after all.
Not a lot bothers me-- Weeping angels and innuendos roll off my back and life goes on. Belittle my competency or encroach with my responsibilities and I am, very much, bovvered. When you make unilateral decisions like removing TC as a stop from the Write in Motion entirely, I feel like my work to salvage the situation and coordinate with Christina at VA has been swept aside and made unnecessary.
That's how I feel-- Unnecessary. I feel like I could turn in my resignation to Paige at this point and this season would be perfectly fine, with or without my contributions.
This is not okay. I'm your co-ML and equal. I want to be treated like one, not as a minion who just happens to work at TC and has access to the ML forums. Can you please do that for me?
Thanks for listening,
Liz
* * *
And Nancy’s response:
* * *
I'm sorry, Liz. I did reply to your texts on Monday regarding the TC issue, stating that I didn't think it would work and why. I feel attacked here--if you felt this strongly about it, you should have told me on Monday and we could have talked about it. Instead, you let my reply stand unchallenged.
If you didn't agree but weren't sure how to reply (which I can understand), all you would have needed to say is, "Let's hold off on making a decision. I think we can still make it work."
What did I do on Sunday that made you angry? For me, the whole planning became difficult when all of a sudden there was not one, but two non-ML people in the room. I had to split my attention between planning and being a hostess.
We communicated poorly on what we wanted to accomplish. We should have both said at the beginning which events we wanted to get taken care of so we would have known what to talk about. I felt like you were constantly chastising me for getting off topic and didn't understand my need as a hostess to interact with Amanda as well.
More than anything, I really don't like that you sat on your anger and then came at me with it five days later. I feel blindsided and, like I said, attacked. If you are upset with me, please tell me at the time so we can deal with it. If you need to wait and think for a while, then please tell me in a calmer way. You've put me in a position where instead of discussing things rationally, I'm forced to be defensive.
Right now, I'm sad, hurt, and angry. I am really upset that you chose not to reply to my texts on Monday and now are claiming I made the decision alone. I told you what my opinion was. You did not answer. And if I keep repeating myself on that point, it's because this is what bothers me the most. There was an opening for you to say you disagreed and you did not take it, and now you are saying I did not give you an opportunity to give your opinion. That is not true and unfair.
For the record, my opinions are often stated as absolutes because that is the way I talk and think. It does not mean I cannot be persuaded to change them, and in many cases, all it takes is for someone to make a good point countering me.
Nancy
* * *
My turn:
There is backstory. There always is. And because of it, Liza has distanced herself from Nancy and has sought counseling-which, considering the backstory (which I won’t go into), I thought a needful and fine idea.
To Liza, I might say:
Dearling, you and I know that you deal in absolutes (like, for good or bad, me). But, on careful reading, I see that you are employing the “when I see/hear you do this, I feel this.” It’s a useful technique. Unfortunately, when your Virgo tendencies kick in, your sense of what you feel and see become a tad (for lack of better words) rigid. (Reference conversations we've had regarding your father . . . )
On the other hand, I’m rather glad you took the time to go home, think things over, and then reach out, instead of getting wounded and hurt and “how could she do this?”. I can promise you that the passive/aggressive thing doesn’t work very well, except during periods of persecution. And, in reading Nancy’s response, forgive me, but I don’t see that happening.
To Nancy, I might respond:
Dearie, Liz has shared with me her triumphs as well as her disappointments. Did you honestly think she wouldn’t tell me of this latest snafu?
So, that being said, there’s a couple of things I might remind you of.
You and Elizabeth have very, very different communication styles. Neither of them are right or wrong-they are just different.
It might have been an error between the two of you when you expected to hear of Liza’s disagreement right then and there on Monday-that’s not her style. In a meeting such as the one last Monday’s appeared to be, I might suggest that there might needed to have have been a request for consensus rather than an expectation that if nothing is said, everything is all right with the decisions being made. (“So, are there any questions or concerns?”)
You state that “my opinions are often stated as absolutes because that is the way I talk and think.” Well, yes. I understand that. But what I don’t see is any acknowledgement that Liza might have thoughts and opinions that are just as absolute.
A pity, that.
I might suggest that for both of you, sometimes thoughts, feelings, and opinions are to be elicited rather than produced on demand.
* * *
Again, I see a huge disagreement between two formerly close friends.
I don’t see any conciliatory moves towards rapprochement on the issues surrounding NaNoWriMo-Elizabeth, because she is DONE coping with Nancy, and Nancy, because she might not see where or if she did something wrong.
Not saying if Nancy or Liza are wrong or right--I don't see that as being germane to the situation at hand.
However, backstory. It's always about the backstory.
Liza has formally resigned from NaNoWriMo. I think that she has acted subconsciously in a positive, conscious way to support her best interests; i.e. she’s got a lot of school coming up and stepping back from another responsibility will be in her own best interests. In addition, this will give her a formal break from the disappointment, disagreement, and drama surrounding the backstory. And it might refresh her viewpoint on a number of unrelated items (not pertinent, not here).
Nancy, while not completely understanding what’s going on in Liza’s head, might benefit from taking a break from Liza’s support.
But that’s my thinking, such as it is.
(Mama Bear goes back to sleep.)
Last night, when Ivan, in a playful moment, called Liza and she burst into tears, he quickly handed off to me and I listened, fully expecting to burst into Mama-Bear mode.
But I didn’t, though I ended up being mightily distracted by what I read when I got home (see below). And I’ve been thinking about it all day.
Oh, the joys of being an Analyst. (It doesn’t shut down when one goes home.)
So, some random thoughts on the following imbroglio, and how I see it:
* * *
Nancy,
You've always been a wonderful friend and mentor. I've learned a lot about writing/authorship and leadership in general over the past few years. I really care about our friendship and for the region and what we do for NaNoWriMo as a whole. It lets me serve in a way I don't get to do very often right now.
That being said, your email about the Write in Motion left me feeling a mix of things, none of them particularly pleasant. I read through your decisions and I feel demoralized and superfluous. I feel angry. I actually felt that way on Sunday, but in true Liz-fashion I sat on it until I could talk with others and analyze it. "Anger is the shortest path to a mistake," after all.
Not a lot bothers me-- Weeping angels and innuendos roll off my back and life goes on. Belittle my competency or encroach with my responsibilities and I am, very much, bovvered. When you make unilateral decisions like removing TC as a stop from the Write in Motion entirely, I feel like my work to salvage the situation and coordinate with Christina at VA has been swept aside and made unnecessary.
That's how I feel-- Unnecessary. I feel like I could turn in my resignation to Paige at this point and this season would be perfectly fine, with or without my contributions.
This is not okay. I'm your co-ML and equal. I want to be treated like one, not as a minion who just happens to work at TC and has access to the ML forums. Can you please do that for me?
Thanks for listening,
Liz
* * *
And Nancy’s response:
* * *
I'm sorry, Liz. I did reply to your texts on Monday regarding the TC issue, stating that I didn't think it would work and why. I feel attacked here--if you felt this strongly about it, you should have told me on Monday and we could have talked about it. Instead, you let my reply stand unchallenged.
If you didn't agree but weren't sure how to reply (which I can understand), all you would have needed to say is, "Let's hold off on making a decision. I think we can still make it work."
What did I do on Sunday that made you angry? For me, the whole planning became difficult when all of a sudden there was not one, but two non-ML people in the room. I had to split my attention between planning and being a hostess.
We communicated poorly on what we wanted to accomplish. We should have both said at the beginning which events we wanted to get taken care of so we would have known what to talk about. I felt like you were constantly chastising me for getting off topic and didn't understand my need as a hostess to interact with Amanda as well.
More than anything, I really don't like that you sat on your anger and then came at me with it five days later. I feel blindsided and, like I said, attacked. If you are upset with me, please tell me at the time so we can deal with it. If you need to wait and think for a while, then please tell me in a calmer way. You've put me in a position where instead of discussing things rationally, I'm forced to be defensive.
Right now, I'm sad, hurt, and angry. I am really upset that you chose not to reply to my texts on Monday and now are claiming I made the decision alone. I told you what my opinion was. You did not answer. And if I keep repeating myself on that point, it's because this is what bothers me the most. There was an opening for you to say you disagreed and you did not take it, and now you are saying I did not give you an opportunity to give your opinion. That is not true and unfair.
For the record, my opinions are often stated as absolutes because that is the way I talk and think. It does not mean I cannot be persuaded to change them, and in many cases, all it takes is for someone to make a good point countering me.
Nancy
* * *
My turn:
There is backstory. There always is. And because of it, Liza has distanced herself from Nancy and has sought counseling-which, considering the backstory (which I won’t go into), I thought a needful and fine idea.
To Liza, I might say:
Dearling, you and I know that you deal in absolutes (like, for good or bad, me). But, on careful reading, I see that you are employing the “when I see/hear you do this, I feel this.” It’s a useful technique. Unfortunately, when your Virgo tendencies kick in, your sense of what you feel and see become a tad (for lack of better words) rigid. (Reference conversations we've had regarding your father . . . )
On the other hand, I’m rather glad you took the time to go home, think things over, and then reach out, instead of getting wounded and hurt and “how could she do this?”. I can promise you that the passive/aggressive thing doesn’t work very well, except during periods of persecution. And, in reading Nancy’s response, forgive me, but I don’t see that happening.
To Nancy, I might respond:
Dearie, Liz has shared with me her triumphs as well as her disappointments. Did you honestly think she wouldn’t tell me of this latest snafu?
So, that being said, there’s a couple of things I might remind you of.
You and Elizabeth have very, very different communication styles. Neither of them are right or wrong-they are just different.
It might have been an error between the two of you when you expected to hear of Liza’s disagreement right then and there on Monday-that’s not her style. In a meeting such as the one last Monday’s appeared to be, I might suggest that there might needed to have have been a request for consensus rather than an expectation that if nothing is said, everything is all right with the decisions being made. (“So, are there any questions or concerns?”)
You state that “my opinions are often stated as absolutes because that is the way I talk and think.” Well, yes. I understand that. But what I don’t see is any acknowledgement that Liza might have thoughts and opinions that are just as absolute.
A pity, that.
I might suggest that for both of you, sometimes thoughts, feelings, and opinions are to be elicited rather than produced on demand.
* * *
Again, I see a huge disagreement between two formerly close friends.
I don’t see any conciliatory moves towards rapprochement on the issues surrounding NaNoWriMo-Elizabeth, because she is DONE coping with Nancy, and Nancy, because she might not see where or if she did something wrong.
Not saying if Nancy or Liza are wrong or right--I don't see that as being germane to the situation at hand.
However, backstory. It's always about the backstory.
Liza has formally resigned from NaNoWriMo. I think that she has acted subconsciously in a positive, conscious way to support her best interests; i.e. she’s got a lot of school coming up and stepping back from another responsibility will be in her own best interests. In addition, this will give her a formal break from the disappointment, disagreement, and drama surrounding the backstory. And it might refresh her viewpoint on a number of unrelated items (not pertinent, not here).
Nancy, while not completely understanding what’s going on in Liza’s head, might benefit from taking a break from Liza’s support.
But that’s my thinking, such as it is.
(Mama Bear goes back to sleep.)