the warm embrace of cold, steely logic

[laurenhat]

Here, have a dinosaur comic that is very me. I'm the T-Rex, if for some reason you could not guess. Fie on all who cannot handle the steely embrace of logic! Fie

Comments

[otherwise_nyc]

Wow, both those dinosaur comics were on the money for me today! I could maybe use a little break in the universe where there isn't a word for love, because then I wouldn't know to want the troublesome boy to tell me he loves me. ::sigh::

As for "woo-woo" stuff: Now that I regularly see an acupuncturist, I do sometimes start sentences with "I know this is going to sound totally woo-woo..." and then talk about acupuncture, but I like to think that I do include the part where I explain why it seems valid and reasonable to me, based on my experiences. I have, though, often heard the other usage, a declaration of "woo-woo-ness" without an explanation of why it's okay. Hmm.

[laurenhat]

Yeah, that kind of usage doesn't seem odd to me. One of the odd things I've encountered is when people say something like, "I know this is going to sound woo-woo, but it's like I know how to do this because of my experience in a past life." I'm just making that example up (though it's not far off from some things I've heard), and I'm not sure it quite illustrates what I mean -- basically, it's cases where I might have assumed that people were making an analogy or metaphor or something, and then the fact that they toss in the woo-woo line actually makes me think that they mean it more literally. And then they give no explanation of how that could be

[laurenhat]

BTW, if you started talking to me with that caveat and then talked about acupuncture, I would hear you out (so that use seems pretty reasonable and effective use of the caveat to me, I guess). Acupuncture is at least something that could obviously have a placebo effect, and also is something that could be (and should be, and possibly has been, but I don't know about it) empirically tested for efficacy. So it seems a lot less woo-woo to me than talk about, e.g., having lived past lives -- something that seems to have no possible mechanism and is also untestable

[lunacow]

I cannot help with the woo-woo. In fact, I have only recently heard this word "woo-woo" (like in the past few months.) But those dinosaur comics rock so hard! And what a great user icon.

[laurenhat]

Woo-woo seems to be a commonish phrase here. I heard Bear use it again last night, and it reminded me about this thing I've been wondering. Speaking of which... I guess if we're going to chat about writing, Bear's show, etc., it has to happen tomorrow, eh? Hmm.

[fastlearner]

I think people preface their stories with that caveat because they want to be heard rather than being dismissed out of hand once the first "woo-woo-ey" sounding thing comes up. Suggested additional meanings that the speaker probably isn't aware of but are driving the caveats:

"I know this sounds woo-woo, but it's important to me."

"I know this sounds woo-woo, but even if I can't explain it logically, it happened to me."

"I know this sounds woo-woo, and I imagine you won't believe it, but I believe it and want to share it."

And perhaps the biggest reason:

"I know this sounds woo-woo to you, but I know how closed-minded you are, so even though it's not actually woo-woo, I'm going to try to appease your way-too-skeptical nature."

[laurenhat]

I think that these, including the last one, may be dead on when someone is using this caveat and speaking to me personally. Interestingly, though, sometimes I've even heard this used when addressing groups that are largely pagan and/or open to all sorts of stuff that I think of as "woo-woo", so apparently there's still a need for a caveat then. But you may still be right that people are worried even in those cases about not being heard, believed, respected, etc.

[fastlearner]

As a card-carrying member of what would be considered by you as the woo-woo crowd, I can say that there are definitely levels of woo, as well as schools of woo. If you're about to speak of a level or school of woo that you don't think the other person subscribes to, the same caveats are necessary. :)

[laurenhat]

Oh yes indeed, there are definitely levels of woo. :)

[vito_excalibur]

I would assume that in this context they mean "woo-woo" to mean "has no logical explanation that I know of." It's not unreasonable in & of itself to take seriously things that have no currently known logical explanation, if the evidence for their existence is convincing. Usually that's the bit that's missing, though.

[laurenhat]

Yeah. I think you're right. See my response to otherwise_nyc for a couple of examples of how this has come up, some with (unconvincing) explanations and some with no explanation.

I've also decided that I can understand why someone would use this caveat in talking to me personally (though it doesn't make me at all more likely to believe them, but it does make me hear them out to see if they have evidence). But I'm interested also that I've heard it used even amongst groups including poly/queer/pagan folk, that I think of as having a fairly high woo-woo belief quotient to begin with. :)

[iphy]

I almost agree with fastlearner except I am one of those way too skeptical people. So, while I think it is occasionally like how otherwise_nyc describes (this sounds crazy, but here is how it is important to me or why I think it is not crazy), an awful lot of the time it seems to me to merely be something to hide behind in case the person being spoken to _does_ think it is woo-woo. That is "I am worried you will make fun of me for believing this, so I am going to imply that I don't really believe it too much by pointing out that I know most people think it sounds woo-woo in a way that will impair you from pointing out that it sounds woo-woo". The same way that some people make jokes at their own expense to keep other people from doing it.

[laurenhat]

Yeah. That makes sense. I'm not really sure how to respond to it, though. Whereas I'm unlikely to make jokes at someone's expense (especially if they seem sensitive about it), if someone says, "I know this sounds woo-woo", chances are I'll agree. And if they say something that I don't think could possibly be true (e.g., "I think I'm a bear trapped in a human body", or "I was X in a past life" or "I can change something on the other side of the planet just by thinking really hard" or "Your uncle is with you right now in this room"), then I just want to say, "yep, that is very woo-woo." I'm either too mean inside or too nice outside though, because I just end up feeling really uncomfortable.