I could actually see Xander being closer to Dawn now, because... Dawn and Buffy are very close in S5, but I kind of don't think they ever really regain that closeness after Buffy returns from the dead? And while Dawn is very important to Buffy, in many ways it's sort of a symbolic importance - it's more that Dawn is the embodiment of the normal life, the humanity, that Buffy is convinced she can never have. Dawn has to be protected, Dawn has to be happy so Buffy can live vicariously through her. So a lot of times I think Buffy doesn't actually see Dawn for who Dawn is rather than who Buffy wants her to be.
And then there's stuff like Buffy pretty much ignoring Dawn's magical transformations through the first half of S8, and going to Xander to tell him she loves him the minute she hears that Xander loves Dawn, which is just... a horrifically awful and tacky thing to do to one's sister. I really liked Dawn being supportive of Buffy during the fake pregnancy story, but again, Buffy more or less rejects Dawn's offer of help there. So I can see Xander being the person who's closest to Dawn right now. I hate that the writers took the characters in that direction, but they did. :/
So a lot of times I think Buffy doesn't actually see Dawn for who Dawn is rather than who Buffy wants her to be.
True, but then Dawn was set up to be Buffy's "love interest" in lieu of Riley or a boyfriend (because clearly a woman can't focus on two people in her life at once, apparently. I - have issues with this.) What you describe does apply to - well, pretty much any relationship (everyone on BTVS is projecting their own needs onto one another constantly). I think it goes both ways with Dawn: she wants Buffy to spend time with her, until she wants her space; she wants boundaries but chafes against them; she wants protection but she wants independence. Pretty normal teen identity stuff really.
In love relationships specifically though: Be my lover, be my friend, be my companion, go away when I want space, stay when I'm lonely, give me the love my parents never did, love me as much as my parents did, be my everything etc etc etc etc So I'm a bit skeptical about Xander because - how far are they in this relationship? My experience is that when we are "in love" (the whole early phase of things) we tend to assume that we know that person so well and they know us completely; I suspect that real love only begins after we can acknowledge that we can't completely "know" anyone else, but we can come to terms with that and not demand or expect that.
going to Xander to tell him she loves him the minute she hears that Xander loves Dawn,
Sure, classic nerdboy fantasy right? Being able to reject the gorgeous girl who rejected you earlier? How many teen movies have I seen that in?
So I can see Xander being the person who's closest to Dawn right now. I hate that the writers took the characters in that direction, but they did. :/
Because he's the one who seeeeeeeeesssssss, right? FTN
Oh, yeah, I think Xander and Dawn have a long way to go before they're the greatest love story of all time. *g* It's just that, given the way Buffy's acted towards Dawn for the last two or three years, I don't see them as being super close any longer. Honestly, I can't blame Buffy for having a certain amount of resentment for having to basically become Dawn's parent very young and unprepared - I don't see Dawn as Buffy's love interest so much as I see their relationship as a metaphor for the sacrificial motherhood Joss is so enamored of. Fathers in the Jossverse kill their children; mothers die for them. (I have some issues of my own!)
I don't see Dawn as Buffy's love interest so much as I see their relationship as a metaphor for the sacrificial motherhood Joss is so enamored of. Fathers in the Jossverse kill their children; mothers die for them. (I have some issues of my own!)
Or in the case of mothers, are killed by their children (Maggie), but then Maggie is the opposite, the "smother-mother"; but - oh yeah, you just summed up another one of my hot-button issues. I tried reading it all in a subversive way - women have been martyrs for their families, childbirth used to be one of the leading causes of death in adult women prior to the 20th century, etc - but that's not how it's being played. There's a fear of women's bodies, of women's minds, that smacks of late 19th century fin de sicle attitudes of the "femme fatale". You don't have to be a mother on the show; you just have to be a woman and your sexuality will be punished at some point, either as predator or victim.
Joss wants to be a liberal/progressive but he can't help showing his hand over and over. Only someone with a fear of women on some subconscious level would approve the shit he does, and then wonder why everyone else doesn't find it funny too. This stuff has always been there but the comics ramp it up to nuclear levels, and without any pesky kids actors to step in and say something.
It's astonishing to me that so many of us in fandom have been saying "Too bad they didn't do something more with Dawn's Keyness" (ie, do something with her inner power) and all Joss can come up with in response is to - make Dawn disappear, a helpless victim of Twilight's stupid decisions Buffy, who needs to be comforted and saved by the menz.
And then there's stuff like Buffy pretty much ignoring Dawn's magical transformations through the first half of S8, and going to Xander to tell him she loves him the minute she hears that Xander loves Dawn, which is just... a horrifically awful and tacky thing to do to one's sister. I really liked Dawn being supportive of Buffy during the fake pregnancy story, but again, Buffy more or less rejects Dawn's offer of help there. So I can see Xander being the person who's closest to Dawn right now. I hate that the writers took the characters in that direction, but they did. :/
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True, but then Dawn was set up to be Buffy's "love interest" in lieu of Riley or a boyfriend (because clearly a woman can't focus on two people in her life at once, apparently. I - have issues with this.) What you describe does apply to - well, pretty much any relationship (everyone on BTVS is projecting their own needs onto one another constantly). I think it goes both ways with Dawn: she wants Buffy to spend time with her, until she wants her space; she wants boundaries but chafes against them; she wants protection but she wants independence. Pretty normal teen identity stuff really.
In love relationships specifically though: Be my lover, be my friend, be my companion, go away when I want space, stay when I'm lonely, give me the love my parents never did, love me as much as my parents did, be my everything etc etc etc etc So I'm a bit skeptical about Xander because - how far are they in this relationship? My experience is that when we are "in love" (the whole early phase of things) we tend to assume that we know that person so well and they know us completely; I suspect that real love only begins after we can acknowledge that we can't completely "know" anyone else, but we can come to terms with that and not demand or expect that.
going to Xander to tell him she loves him the minute she hears that Xander loves Dawn,
Sure, classic nerdboy fantasy right? Being able to reject the gorgeous girl who rejected you earlier? How many teen movies have I seen that in?
So I can see Xander being the person who's closest to Dawn right now. I hate that the writers took the characters in that direction, but they did. :/
Because he's the one who seeeeeeeeesssssss, right? FTN
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Or in the case of mothers, are killed by their children (Maggie), but then Maggie is the opposite, the "smother-mother"; but - oh yeah, you just summed up another one of my hot-button issues. I tried reading it all in a subversive way - women have been martyrs for their families, childbirth used to be one of the leading causes of death in adult women prior to the 20th century, etc - but that's not how it's being played. There's a fear of women's bodies, of women's minds, that smacks of late 19th century fin de sicle attitudes of the "femme fatale". You don't have to be a mother on the show; you just have to be a woman and your sexuality will be punished at some point, either as predator or victim.
Joss wants to be a liberal/progressive but he can't help showing his hand over and over. Only someone with a fear of women on some subconscious level would approve the shit he does, and then wonder why everyone else doesn't find it funny too. This stuff has always been there but the comics ramp it up to nuclear levels, and without any pesky kids actors to step in and say something.
It's astonishing to me that so many of us in fandom have been saying "Too bad they didn't do something more with Dawn's Keyness" (ie, do something with her inner power) and all Joss can come up with in response is to - make Dawn disappear, a helpless victim of Twilight's stupid decisions Buffy, who needs to be comforted and saved by the menz.
Stopping now.
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