A scanlation related rant.
I'm not going to cut corners and just be absolutely blunt and honest about this. Some (or a lot) may not agree with me, but this is my stance on the whole Mangafox fiasco and how scanlators are handling it (or not handling it, rather).
your strike is pointless.
So I've heard about Mangafox's...well to put it mildly, "dick move" about voiding their previous policy of not uploading specific series or group works on their site and are now just uploading everything ever, including the ones they removed.
It sucks, I know. I can agree to that. They had a policy and an agreement with the scanlation groups and they pretty much breached it (look at my legal terms seeping out :|).
What I can't agree is how several teams are reacting to it. I honestly do not think "CEASE ALL PRODUCTION AND GO ON STRIKE" is going to work. Maybe this is also the reason why I don't think strikes in general are that useful, but how is going on strike and killing all of your active projects going to solve...anything?
Even this whole Mangafox fiasco isn't new. Anyone remember Stoptazmo.com? If I recall correctly, Tazmo ran one of the super huge Naruto/Bleach/SomethingelseIthink sites and basically used all the donations for himself. It's not new. And it won't be the last time either. Don't be jerks to hundreds because you were jerked by one or a couple of people.
MF is still going to be there. Groups will still scanlate. Readers will still read/leech. At most you're going to get "Aww I'm sorry this project dropped, I loved it DD:" and then everyone will move on with their lives.
Sorry guys, but really? No one will actually care that much. Unlike taking a strike on a job, you're not really making much of a statement and pretty much just trying to make yourselves feel happy. You may actually be doing more harm than good. In terms of internet world, taking a stand for something like this really doesn't mean that much. Terminating a project just means you lost the only real supply of "revenue" you had: your readerbase.
duty as a scanlator (and don't be a dick while at it).
Now this rant is coming from a lovely comment I saw a group translator gave to someone else. It's actually the reason why this post exists now. You can read it here, but I'm copying and pasting it all here, too.
Black Mokona
I don't think that Manga Fox is that bad. Lets face it, not many people are knowledgeable about manga or anime. If it were not for Mangafox, or Manga Reader- or any other of the collective sites, I wouldn't know about the majority of manga out there. Think about it- there are thousands upon thousands of different mangas, and hundreds of different translator teams. How is someone supposed to find your team, or find a manga that they like? If someone has never heard of manga before, are they just going to 'know' who xscansx is, or who Japanzai is? If they aren't fluent in different Japanese manga, are they going to know the hip or popular new releases? No, they aren't, because they speak English, and they rely on translators to provide them with a product.
By this, I mean I can't speak Japanese. I am sure that the majority of the people relying on your translation services don't speak Japanese. So how are they going to find manga, or browse manga, or figure out what they like? Is the definition of manga the 20 or so mangas you have on your site? And if I don't know about Mangafox, or any other of the collection sites- are there no others in existence, because I'm limited of my knowledge of manga, and there really aren't any other ways of learning?
Love So Life is one of my favorite mangas. Honestly. It has a pure and kind innocence to it that genuinely warms the heart. I found it on MangaFox or one of those sites. And, from that site, I appreciated the hard work put forth by Japanzai that I started visiting your webpage. Since then, I've started reading several other projects put forth by your community- I am huge fans of your efforts. You work hard, and I realize that you want the credit for the things you do.
That being said, threatening to go on strike isn't exactly fair, because if people are genuinely fans of "Love So Life"- they'd simply wait for another scan group to take up the project. Which is sad- you put forth excellent releases, and it is kind of really crumby when all that time and effort is treated without respect or appreciation. You make a product that you are proud of, and it is kind of maddening to not really be appreciated for all the hard work you do.
Please don't stop producing 'Love So Life'. Your protest won't hurt MangaFox, because MangaFox has thousands of groups they do this to- they don't care, they still make money regardless. They don't need your project, and will simply use someone else when the time arises. That is kind of like life- how bigger businesses can impose their will on smaller ones. That being stated, I know that I found the manga off of Mangafox, and that led me to your website: from which I now do most of my reading from for this series and several others. And so it isn't that bad a thing- right? Instead of relying only on a 'word of mouth' of the awesomeness of Japanese manga and your specific translation group to be spread around the world, you have an aggregator that collects projects, and random people who browse these projects- and see the ones they like, will show their appreciation by going back to your site, and following more of your releases.
I don't mean to be crude or start a flame war, but honestly, how many of the readers or the members of your community are genuinely true "Japanzai" and "XScansX" manga fans who have never used MangaFox in their lives and know exactly the type of manga, including the specific translations they want from which Japanese manga complations, without ever browsing through the many hundreds of series available? You must realize that the majority of people on the Internet are noobs, including myself, who rely on sites like Mangafox to figure out what they like, and what scanlation groups are cool. And so, perhaps, you might be slightly over reacting to MangaFox doing what they always, always do to everyone- not only you.
So, in conclusion, I'd ask that you not drop "Love So Life". It is an amazing manga, one of my favorites, and it is the reason why I'm a regular visitor of your site. If MangaFox can bring in new fans to your site, such as myself, it can't be all that bad, can it? Because, quite frankly, without it I'd have no idea that you exist. Thanks for reading this, and thank you so very much for the superbly talented efforts you put forth in your 'Love So Life' translations. smile
PROzess (in reply)
Dude, there is a site out there called MANGAUPDATES. It has all fucking information you need, without making profit off the scanlator's work.
Fucking learn japanese yourself if you don't want projects to be dropped.
I'm sick of leechers fucking excuses.
YOU'RE LAZY AS SHIT. You don't give a damn about the scanlators life or circumstances.
You want your manga and FAST. That's all you care about.
Actually I was supposed to take over the translation for this series, but fucking comments from a*sh*les like you make me realize once again what a rotten community scanlation is.
Fucking leechers are just not worth the effort.
Sorry, but that just really irked me beyond belief, and not because I agreed with Black Mokona. Just the way someone on that actual team responded to them was completely out of line. It's fine to disagree, but don't treat someone who was polite in their response and showed appreciation with that kind of attitude. There are many and much better ways to convey that same message but in a more professional and polite manner.
I am very aware that there are leechers, but you know? That's basically 90% of the reader base as a whole. Your audience is ranging from pre-teens to mid-20s with a few outliers. Honestly, what do you expect? This isn't new. The whole demographic isn't new. The whole concept of there being leechers who just want to read everything and have everything "NOW NOW NOW" isn't new. The moment someone signs onto a scanlation team, they should know what they are getting into. If you live in America, you really should know what you're getting into. To expect anything less or more is just being unrealistic and impractical, sorry. For all I know, the groups could be in high school, too (I kind of hope so because if they are in their 20s and acting like this, I am really going to wonder about today's society).
So to think they should feel all high and mighty just because they have the ability to translate and work a graphics program is complete bullshit, sorry. The only thing that makes a scanlator different from a reader/leecher is the fact that they have the skills that allows them to do what they do. Maybe a reader could learn to be a scanlator, but not everyone has that opportunity or skill to do so. To expect everyone be able to do it just because you can is, again, complete bullshit. And this is coming from someone who can scanlate and has the capability of doing so. I just can't translate, but I know how to work a graphics program. I just don't have the time or motivation (well now I do after seeing all this shit flying around, ironically).
There are only two groups you should be concerned about: your own group who have a self interest in the series and the core group of readers who will follow it. Those are the ones who will actively visit your group's site or channel or whatever. And if others happen to also benefit from other sources? Oh well. It's the internet. It's going to happen whether you want it or not. Newsflash, you don't have control over what anyone else does. You can watermark and boycott all you want, but it's not going to do jack. In order to make yourself feel good, you're making all your readers suffer and putting more stress on yourself.
Look, scanlation is for free. It's a voluntary hobby. But it's a hobby that you're basically serving other people, so you might as well treat it similar to a job and responsibility. If you just want to serve yourself, don't release things to them public or just have them as "incidental" releases-as in, you're not really scanlating them for anyone, but since you're doing it for yourself you might as well just let it out in the public. No one can count on you to make a release, and no one can complain.
However, the moment you become an official team and actually make a "living" out of scanlating, then all your priorities have changed. Usually, though not always, the reason why a team picks up a project is because they enjoy it and want others to read it, popularity of a series or manga-ka aside. How else do you think there are so many obscure series out there? If it was just on popularity alone, we wouldn't have nearly as many series out there. But it isn't a contest. It's not about your own credits or your team's name for a project. It's just about spreading the work, no matter how it gets done. The US has a small anime/manga pool and it's very obvious that isn't thriving that well here. It's growing, sure, but it's not a very lucrative business.
readers, you're in the hot seat, too.
That said, it's not just the scanlators. Readers also need to lose their little self of entitlement, too. Scanlation is a free thing. Thus groups have no real obligation to keep it up. If everyone loses interest, it's gone, end of story. Despite whatever I said above, scanlators are free to pick and drop whatever they want. Don't forget that the group itself has to be interested in the series, too.
Readers are only the second source of motivation for a group to bring out a project. If all of you are jackasses and don't give proper respect to the group, either, then why should they work their asses on their own free time to produce something that doesn't matter? Yeah, I sang the whole "Scanlate to share the series!" tune above, but what's the point of singing a tune when there's no audience?
If a group says "Please don't upload to an aggregate site," then don't do it. It's so simple. On the other hand, I can also suspect that it's not necessarily the readers but some other cronie "working" for those sites who follow groups and just upload them anyway. So I can't really blame the readerbase as a whole.
But that's not all. I've seen the "When's the next release coming out?" and "OMG GIVE ME MY CHAPTERS FASTER GAAAWWWDD" messages before since back in 2003. 8 years later, it hasn't changed. Still, when a group says, "Hey we're working on it" let them work. This isn't their job. They're doing this for you, the reader. Be patient. You can wait another week before finding out if that couple got together or if that person died. If it's a current series, you'd have to wait a month and a few weeks anyway for it to even be available on release.
Look, I know a lot of the people who are like "omg gimme" are probably like 13-15 who have no real clue about what goes on in these kinds of things and I should give them some slack because a lot of them (not everyone, but a lot) are ignorant little twats that I'd like to hit upside the head many times. I also know that they probably constitute over 70% of the reader base. But since I do know that, I shouldn't let them get to me.
They are going to exist (as much as I hate it) and you just have to deal with them. One day they'll grow up and mature (hopefully) but until then, they are like clueless little babies that don't know anything. As a scanlator, you just take a breath, leave the necessary "We're working on it" message and just do whatever. They'll read it and gobble it up like a baby chick and a worm and chirp for more, but you're just going to have to put up with it. It's part of the "job" and there are some adults who are like that, too.
Word of advice for scanlators. My personal philosophy is just try to be the better man, no matter how annoying of a brat your adversary is. At least you keep your own honor and if anyone looked back, it'll be clear that you didn't sink to their level. It can be hard (believe me, I've been there and I know) but it works out for the better in the end.
benefits of online readers.
Forget about Mangafox and its subsidiaries. Online readers in general are actually very beneficial. No one is just going to randomly google a series and magically find a scanlation group. Online readers are basically online bookstores. You can see a series and browse through them, and be able to test them out. Yeah, Mangaupdates is a great directory, but that's all it is. A directory for sub-par summaries about a series at best. I am less inclined to randomly try a series just by judging a cover art, a small half-assed blurb, and a title name.
Being able to flip through and look through the pages and then see the scanlator is much easier, seriously. Also, I don't see any practical reason to download a chapter only to delete it immediately after. That's just cluttering up my computer and wasting resources. If I really like a series, I'll download it for keeps. But of all the series I read, that's only like 1%. The rest? Online. It is much easier and saves space.
You know why else they're great? When a group goes down, so do all their links. You cannot find any of the older series that used to exist a few years ago. Host links will expire. What was once available is now gone. But with an online reader, you can still read those old series. You can still go back and read old favorites in case you never had a chance to save them or deleted them.
Most of all, it's great for reader exposure. It's a fact that most readers discover and read new series through them for the very reasons I stated in that first paragraph of this section. If people want to share a series with someone else, they link them to the online reader. No need for them to download. Just read right there.
They're simple. They're easy. They're practical. Other than the abuse, there is nothing wrong with them and I would not care if my own projects were put up there. Why? Exposure. Exposure. Exposure. What better way to get advertisement than there?
what's in a credit.
Scanlating is breaking the law. You have no real rights except for "credit" for what you've done. But even though I'm going into patent or copyright law, as long as the group who is doing the work isn't profiting, then I don't see a problem. Anyway, going on strike is really just throwing a hissy fit because you're not getting all that precious credit that you really want. I mean come on. You're technically already stealing the credit from the original creator.
As someone who ran a graphics site and well aware of the whole "CREDIT MY CRAP DAMMIT" debacle that goes in that venue, the only real sympathy I can muster is for when that credit is actually stolen, claimed to be done by someone else, and someone else profits from it. I've had my stuff displayed in galleries, with or without credit, but you know what? I don't give a fuck. Why? Because shit, if they liked it that much to display it somewhere, all right! Now more people will see it! Would I like people to know I made it? Eh, sure. Would be nice. Would I file a lawsuit over it? Fuck no. Why? I put it in public to begin with. I put them all out there to be used by other people to begin with. That was their purpose. To be used. To be shared. It was in the public domain.
The only thing I'd frown at is if someone claimed they did it all for themselves. Then I'd get irked. So I can understand why some groups are really pissed at Mangafox for what they did. I would be, too. But that's when you need to also take a chill pill. When you start blaming your own readerbase, then that's just messed up, I'm sorry. There are better ways to do it.
what i would do.
Maybe I'm just an oddball here, but if I were in their shoes, I wouldn't stop. Would it suck? Yeah it would. But me getting all the credit for something isn't the point. Sharing a series I really like is. If you want other fans to know about it, why wouldn't you share it with others? Why make it some sort of secret fanclub that you have to fly through a flaming hoop to join and have access? Why ruin the experience for the majority? Yeah, you might have a handful that are all "Yeah let's do this!" but that's a really small handful, seriously.
If you run a site, just put a message. Put it in your releases that you don't support whatever is going on and that whoever uploaded it violated the rules. Look, as I said, you as a team can't do jack shit outside of killing a project completely, and what good is that going to do? Show your pride? Pride means nothing here. Valiant heroism means nothing. Activism means NOTHING. I'm sorry, but like I said I'm not sugar coating anything and this was labeled as a rant, anyway. I've been on the online social scene for far too long to know how it goes.
If I knew how to do it, I'd make a new online reader database. The only money I would have to ask would be for the servers. That's just a given, you cannot escape that. Unless I had a job that could fund it (come back to me in 2-3 years), bandwidth and servers are expensive. It's also one of the reasons why people use ads: help fund the servers. It's only when it's misused that you get this whole mess, like with Mangafox. Don't make a business or company out of it. In essence it's a freaking huge gallery that just happens to hold art that you can read. Seriously, that's all an online reader is.
Another thing I would do is have a special section just for the groups so one could properly link to their page and site. Would really help keep things organized. I liked how Mangafox's database worked, but if only I could click on a group name so I can see what other projects they've done. And that way, the credit is clear on the site itself.
Technically I think I do have the space and bandwidth for an online reader. Hell, I still have my domain and site space, but it has basically nothing in it other than all my colorings and icons. MAYBE I REALLY SHOULD CONTINUE JINTORI GAME. Practice with that at least. And then in case someone is like "YOU'RE NOT IN THE SCANLATING BUSINESS WHAT DO YOU KNOW" (because clearly having experience having to do with other online social activities doesn't count) I can just be like "Here."
final words.
Look it sucks and I do feel bad that this is happening. I'm not saying what MF is doing is right and in fact I do side more with the scanlators here. I just cannot agree to some of their actions. This whole sense of entitlement is running all over internet forums and I personally feel like it's just ruining everything. Yes you do deserve some credit and some acknowledgement. But on that same token you gotta expect that things are gonna be crappy sometimes and not everything is going to go your way.
Maybe it's because I'm more low keyed that I can think this way. Maybe it's because I'm more compromising and forgiving. Maybe it's because I've had to deal and hear about this shit over the past 8 or so years that I'm kind of at the point where it all just doesn't make much sense to me.
It's not that I don't understand where people are coming from. I observe a lot, both offline and online. And I can empathize very easily with someone. But just because I empathize doesn't mean I'm immediately right there behind them. I can agree and disagree on a topic very easily. I can see the pros and cons of something very well. But all this was my personal stance, which some will also find mind boggling. I know that and I don't expect everyone to agree with me. In fact I think the opposite.
Well, more like I highly doubt anyone but like 3 people will have read this whole thing.
But there you are. TL;DR - it sucks but put on your pants, get your priorities straight, and suck it. If you feel that emotional about something that you just want to quit everything, then you probably should. Not because you're right, but because you shouldn't be getting that emotionally attached to begin with and are doing things for the wrong reasons.
your strike is pointless.
So I've heard about Mangafox's...well to put it mildly, "dick move" about voiding their previous policy of not uploading specific series or group works on their site and are now just uploading everything ever, including the ones they removed.
It sucks, I know. I can agree to that. They had a policy and an agreement with the scanlation groups and they pretty much breached it (look at my legal terms seeping out :|).
What I can't agree is how several teams are reacting to it. I honestly do not think "CEASE ALL PRODUCTION AND GO ON STRIKE" is going to work. Maybe this is also the reason why I don't think strikes in general are that useful, but how is going on strike and killing all of your active projects going to solve...anything?
Even this whole Mangafox fiasco isn't new. Anyone remember Stoptazmo.com? If I recall correctly, Tazmo ran one of the super huge Naruto/Bleach/SomethingelseIthink sites and basically used all the donations for himself. It's not new. And it won't be the last time either. Don't be jerks to hundreds because you were jerked by one or a couple of people.
MF is still going to be there. Groups will still scanlate. Readers will still read/leech. At most you're going to get "Aww I'm sorry this project dropped, I loved it DD:" and then everyone will move on with their lives.
Sorry guys, but really? No one will actually care that much. Unlike taking a strike on a job, you're not really making much of a statement and pretty much just trying to make yourselves feel happy. You may actually be doing more harm than good. In terms of internet world, taking a stand for something like this really doesn't mean that much. Terminating a project just means you lost the only real supply of "revenue" you had: your readerbase.
duty as a scanlator (and don't be a dick while at it).
Now this rant is coming from a lovely comment I saw a group translator gave to someone else. It's actually the reason why this post exists now. You can read it here, but I'm copying and pasting it all here, too.
Black Mokona
I don't think that Manga Fox is that bad. Lets face it, not many people are knowledgeable about manga or anime. If it were not for Mangafox, or Manga Reader- or any other of the collective sites, I wouldn't know about the majority of manga out there. Think about it- there are thousands upon thousands of different mangas, and hundreds of different translator teams. How is someone supposed to find your team, or find a manga that they like? If someone has never heard of manga before, are they just going to 'know' who xscansx is, or who Japanzai is? If they aren't fluent in different Japanese manga, are they going to know the hip or popular new releases? No, they aren't, because they speak English, and they rely on translators to provide them with a product.
By this, I mean I can't speak Japanese. I am sure that the majority of the people relying on your translation services don't speak Japanese. So how are they going to find manga, or browse manga, or figure out what they like? Is the definition of manga the 20 or so mangas you have on your site? And if I don't know about Mangafox, or any other of the collection sites- are there no others in existence, because I'm limited of my knowledge of manga, and there really aren't any other ways of learning?
Love So Life is one of my favorite mangas. Honestly. It has a pure and kind innocence to it that genuinely warms the heart. I found it on MangaFox or one of those sites. And, from that site, I appreciated the hard work put forth by Japanzai that I started visiting your webpage. Since then, I've started reading several other projects put forth by your community- I am huge fans of your efforts. You work hard, and I realize that you want the credit for the things you do.
That being said, threatening to go on strike isn't exactly fair, because if people are genuinely fans of "Love So Life"- they'd simply wait for another scan group to take up the project. Which is sad- you put forth excellent releases, and it is kind of really crumby when all that time and effort is treated without respect or appreciation. You make a product that you are proud of, and it is kind of maddening to not really be appreciated for all the hard work you do.
Please don't stop producing 'Love So Life'. Your protest won't hurt MangaFox, because MangaFox has thousands of groups they do this to- they don't care, they still make money regardless. They don't need your project, and will simply use someone else when the time arises. That is kind of like life- how bigger businesses can impose their will on smaller ones. That being stated, I know that I found the manga off of Mangafox, and that led me to your website: from which I now do most of my reading from for this series and several others. And so it isn't that bad a thing- right? Instead of relying only on a 'word of mouth' of the awesomeness of Japanese manga and your specific translation group to be spread around the world, you have an aggregator that collects projects, and random people who browse these projects- and see the ones they like, will show their appreciation by going back to your site, and following more of your releases.
I don't mean to be crude or start a flame war, but honestly, how many of the readers or the members of your community are genuinely true "Japanzai" and "XScansX" manga fans who have never used MangaFox in their lives and know exactly the type of manga, including the specific translations they want from which Japanese manga complations, without ever browsing through the many hundreds of series available? You must realize that the majority of people on the Internet are noobs, including myself, who rely on sites like Mangafox to figure out what they like, and what scanlation groups are cool. And so, perhaps, you might be slightly over reacting to MangaFox doing what they always, always do to everyone- not only you.
So, in conclusion, I'd ask that you not drop "Love So Life". It is an amazing manga, one of my favorites, and it is the reason why I'm a regular visitor of your site. If MangaFox can bring in new fans to your site, such as myself, it can't be all that bad, can it? Because, quite frankly, without it I'd have no idea that you exist. Thanks for reading this, and thank you so very much for the superbly talented efforts you put forth in your 'Love So Life' translations. smile
PROzess (in reply)
Dude, there is a site out there called MANGAUPDATES. It has all fucking information you need, without making profit off the scanlator's work.
Fucking learn japanese yourself if you don't want projects to be dropped.
I'm sick of leechers fucking excuses.
YOU'RE LAZY AS SHIT. You don't give a damn about the scanlators life or circumstances.
You want your manga and FAST. That's all you care about.
Actually I was supposed to take over the translation for this series, but fucking comments from a*sh*les like you make me realize once again what a rotten community scanlation is.
Fucking leechers are just not worth the effort.
Sorry, but that just really irked me beyond belief, and not because I agreed with Black Mokona. Just the way someone on that actual team responded to them was completely out of line. It's fine to disagree, but don't treat someone who was polite in their response and showed appreciation with that kind of attitude. There are many and much better ways to convey that same message but in a more professional and polite manner.
I am very aware that there are leechers, but you know? That's basically 90% of the reader base as a whole. Your audience is ranging from pre-teens to mid-20s with a few outliers. Honestly, what do you expect? This isn't new. The whole demographic isn't new. The whole concept of there being leechers who just want to read everything and have everything "NOW NOW NOW" isn't new. The moment someone signs onto a scanlation team, they should know what they are getting into. If you live in America, you really should know what you're getting into. To expect anything less or more is just being unrealistic and impractical, sorry. For all I know, the groups could be in high school, too (I kind of hope so because if they are in their 20s and acting like this, I am really going to wonder about today's society).
So to think they should feel all high and mighty just because they have the ability to translate and work a graphics program is complete bullshit, sorry. The only thing that makes a scanlator different from a reader/leecher is the fact that they have the skills that allows them to do what they do. Maybe a reader could learn to be a scanlator, but not everyone has that opportunity or skill to do so. To expect everyone be able to do it just because you can is, again, complete bullshit. And this is coming from someone who can scanlate and has the capability of doing so. I just can't translate, but I know how to work a graphics program. I just don't have the time or motivation (well now I do after seeing all this shit flying around, ironically).
There are only two groups you should be concerned about: your own group who have a self interest in the series and the core group of readers who will follow it. Those are the ones who will actively visit your group's site or channel or whatever. And if others happen to also benefit from other sources? Oh well. It's the internet. It's going to happen whether you want it or not. Newsflash, you don't have control over what anyone else does. You can watermark and boycott all you want, but it's not going to do jack. In order to make yourself feel good, you're making all your readers suffer and putting more stress on yourself.
Look, scanlation is for free. It's a voluntary hobby. But it's a hobby that you're basically serving other people, so you might as well treat it similar to a job and responsibility. If you just want to serve yourself, don't release things to them public or just have them as "incidental" releases-as in, you're not really scanlating them for anyone, but since you're doing it for yourself you might as well just let it out in the public. No one can count on you to make a release, and no one can complain.
However, the moment you become an official team and actually make a "living" out of scanlating, then all your priorities have changed. Usually, though not always, the reason why a team picks up a project is because they enjoy it and want others to read it, popularity of a series or manga-ka aside. How else do you think there are so many obscure series out there? If it was just on popularity alone, we wouldn't have nearly as many series out there. But it isn't a contest. It's not about your own credits or your team's name for a project. It's just about spreading the work, no matter how it gets done. The US has a small anime/manga pool and it's very obvious that isn't thriving that well here. It's growing, sure, but it's not a very lucrative business.
readers, you're in the hot seat, too.
That said, it's not just the scanlators. Readers also need to lose their little self of entitlement, too. Scanlation is a free thing. Thus groups have no real obligation to keep it up. If everyone loses interest, it's gone, end of story. Despite whatever I said above, scanlators are free to pick and drop whatever they want. Don't forget that the group itself has to be interested in the series, too.
Readers are only the second source of motivation for a group to bring out a project. If all of you are jackasses and don't give proper respect to the group, either, then why should they work their asses on their own free time to produce something that doesn't matter? Yeah, I sang the whole "Scanlate to share the series!" tune above, but what's the point of singing a tune when there's no audience?
If a group says "Please don't upload to an aggregate site," then don't do it. It's so simple. On the other hand, I can also suspect that it's not necessarily the readers but some other cronie "working" for those sites who follow groups and just upload them anyway. So I can't really blame the readerbase as a whole.
But that's not all. I've seen the "When's the next release coming out?" and "OMG GIVE ME MY CHAPTERS FASTER GAAAWWWDD" messages before since back in 2003. 8 years later, it hasn't changed. Still, when a group says, "Hey we're working on it" let them work. This isn't their job. They're doing this for you, the reader. Be patient. You can wait another week before finding out if that couple got together or if that person died. If it's a current series, you'd have to wait a month and a few weeks anyway for it to even be available on release.
Look, I know a lot of the people who are like "omg gimme" are probably like 13-15 who have no real clue about what goes on in these kinds of things and I should give them some slack because a lot of them (not everyone, but a lot) are ignorant little twats that I'd like to hit upside the head many times. I also know that they probably constitute over 70% of the reader base. But since I do know that, I shouldn't let them get to me.
They are going to exist (as much as I hate it) and you just have to deal with them. One day they'll grow up and mature (hopefully) but until then, they are like clueless little babies that don't know anything. As a scanlator, you just take a breath, leave the necessary "We're working on it" message and just do whatever. They'll read it and gobble it up like a baby chick and a worm and chirp for more, but you're just going to have to put up with it. It's part of the "job" and there are some adults who are like that, too.
Word of advice for scanlators. My personal philosophy is just try to be the better man, no matter how annoying of a brat your adversary is. At least you keep your own honor and if anyone looked back, it'll be clear that you didn't sink to their level. It can be hard (believe me, I've been there and I know) but it works out for the better in the end.
benefits of online readers.
Forget about Mangafox and its subsidiaries. Online readers in general are actually very beneficial. No one is just going to randomly google a series and magically find a scanlation group. Online readers are basically online bookstores. You can see a series and browse through them, and be able to test them out. Yeah, Mangaupdates is a great directory, but that's all it is. A directory for sub-par summaries about a series at best. I am less inclined to randomly try a series just by judging a cover art, a small half-assed blurb, and a title name.
Being able to flip through and look through the pages and then see the scanlator is much easier, seriously. Also, I don't see any practical reason to download a chapter only to delete it immediately after. That's just cluttering up my computer and wasting resources. If I really like a series, I'll download it for keeps. But of all the series I read, that's only like 1%. The rest? Online. It is much easier and saves space.
You know why else they're great? When a group goes down, so do all their links. You cannot find any of the older series that used to exist a few years ago. Host links will expire. What was once available is now gone. But with an online reader, you can still read those old series. You can still go back and read old favorites in case you never had a chance to save them or deleted them.
Most of all, it's great for reader exposure. It's a fact that most readers discover and read new series through them for the very reasons I stated in that first paragraph of this section. If people want to share a series with someone else, they link them to the online reader. No need for them to download. Just read right there.
They're simple. They're easy. They're practical. Other than the abuse, there is nothing wrong with them and I would not care if my own projects were put up there. Why? Exposure. Exposure. Exposure. What better way to get advertisement than there?
what's in a credit.
Scanlating is breaking the law. You have no real rights except for "credit" for what you've done. But even though I'm going into patent or copyright law, as long as the group who is doing the work isn't profiting, then I don't see a problem. Anyway, going on strike is really just throwing a hissy fit because you're not getting all that precious credit that you really want. I mean come on. You're technically already stealing the credit from the original creator.
As someone who ran a graphics site and well aware of the whole "CREDIT MY CRAP DAMMIT" debacle that goes in that venue, the only real sympathy I can muster is for when that credit is actually stolen, claimed to be done by someone else, and someone else profits from it. I've had my stuff displayed in galleries, with or without credit, but you know what? I don't give a fuck. Why? Because shit, if they liked it that much to display it somewhere, all right! Now more people will see it! Would I like people to know I made it? Eh, sure. Would be nice. Would I file a lawsuit over it? Fuck no. Why? I put it in public to begin with. I put them all out there to be used by other people to begin with. That was their purpose. To be used. To be shared. It was in the public domain.
The only thing I'd frown at is if someone claimed they did it all for themselves. Then I'd get irked. So I can understand why some groups are really pissed at Mangafox for what they did. I would be, too. But that's when you need to also take a chill pill. When you start blaming your own readerbase, then that's just messed up, I'm sorry. There are better ways to do it.
what i would do.
Maybe I'm just an oddball here, but if I were in their shoes, I wouldn't stop. Would it suck? Yeah it would. But me getting all the credit for something isn't the point. Sharing a series I really like is. If you want other fans to know about it, why wouldn't you share it with others? Why make it some sort of secret fanclub that you have to fly through a flaming hoop to join and have access? Why ruin the experience for the majority? Yeah, you might have a handful that are all "Yeah let's do this!" but that's a really small handful, seriously.
If you run a site, just put a message. Put it in your releases that you don't support whatever is going on and that whoever uploaded it violated the rules. Look, as I said, you as a team can't do jack shit outside of killing a project completely, and what good is that going to do? Show your pride? Pride means nothing here. Valiant heroism means nothing. Activism means NOTHING. I'm sorry, but like I said I'm not sugar coating anything and this was labeled as a rant, anyway. I've been on the online social scene for far too long to know how it goes.
If I knew how to do it, I'd make a new online reader database. The only money I would have to ask would be for the servers. That's just a given, you cannot escape that. Unless I had a job that could fund it (come back to me in 2-3 years), bandwidth and servers are expensive. It's also one of the reasons why people use ads: help fund the servers. It's only when it's misused that you get this whole mess, like with Mangafox. Don't make a business or company out of it. In essence it's a freaking huge gallery that just happens to hold art that you can read. Seriously, that's all an online reader is.
Another thing I would do is have a special section just for the groups so one could properly link to their page and site. Would really help keep things organized. I liked how Mangafox's database worked, but if only I could click on a group name so I can see what other projects they've done. And that way, the credit is clear on the site itself.
Technically I think I do have the space and bandwidth for an online reader. Hell, I still have my domain and site space, but it has basically nothing in it other than all my colorings and icons. MAYBE I REALLY SHOULD CONTINUE JINTORI GAME. Practice with that at least. And then in case someone is like "YOU'RE NOT IN THE SCANLATING BUSINESS WHAT DO YOU KNOW" (because clearly having experience having to do with other online social activities doesn't count) I can just be like "Here."
final words.
Look it sucks and I do feel bad that this is happening. I'm not saying what MF is doing is right and in fact I do side more with the scanlators here. I just cannot agree to some of their actions. This whole sense of entitlement is running all over internet forums and I personally feel like it's just ruining everything. Yes you do deserve some credit and some acknowledgement. But on that same token you gotta expect that things are gonna be crappy sometimes and not everything is going to go your way.
Maybe it's because I'm more low keyed that I can think this way. Maybe it's because I'm more compromising and forgiving. Maybe it's because I've had to deal and hear about this shit over the past 8 or so years that I'm kind of at the point where it all just doesn't make much sense to me.
It's not that I don't understand where people are coming from. I observe a lot, both offline and online. And I can empathize very easily with someone. But just because I empathize doesn't mean I'm immediately right there behind them. I can agree and disagree on a topic very easily. I can see the pros and cons of something very well. But all this was my personal stance, which some will also find mind boggling. I know that and I don't expect everyone to agree with me. In fact I think the opposite.
Well, more like I highly doubt anyone but like 3 people will have read this whole thing.
But there you are. TL;DR - it sucks but put on your pants, get your priorities straight, and suck it. If you feel that emotional about something that you just want to quit everything, then you probably should. Not because you're right, but because you shouldn't be getting that emotionally attached to begin with and are doing things for the wrong reasons.