RE: Response part 1ladyhadhafangJanuary 6 2016, 02:06:28 UTC
Hey! *Hugs tightly* It's so good to see you. How was your Christmas? Also, happy new year!
And that really sucks regarding the X-Men Apocalypse thing. Seriously.
Yeah, as I said to eldritch once, one of the rare things I disliked about TFA was that it did occasionally feel like The Original Trilogy's Greatest Hits. And the attack on Starkiller Base did feel a bit like that. (And Starkiller Base did feel like a Bigger and Badder Death Star -- I think they even basically pointed it out during the briefing in the movie)
Yeah, that is something I realized about Kylo and Caedus both. Maybe they're going for the "evil never dies" thing and "history repeats itself", but it is a bit tiresome. And it does lend to some really depressing stuff regarding Anakin's ultimate sacrifice, what Luke and co. fought for, etc. And Kylo...I think he's a bit of a mixed bag. He kind of has some pretty good moments, like with Rey (I mean, however you interpret the relationship, he does seem to treat her a little better than others in the film...not that that's saying much), and Han, etc., but some of his scenes came off as silly (such as his slicing up the computer terminals. I actually had to hold back a snicker first time I watched it because it was kind of ridiculous, although I did find it a bit humorous with the two stormtroopers, in response to his second "Kylo Smash" moment, were like, "Okay, let's get out of here." At the same time, poor stormtroopers). Like I said, mixed bag.
Ah. Good point about the 29 vs. 30 thing. Didn't think of that.
Harrison Ford was amazing! I know he did some really great stuff with the more comedic material in the movie, and of course the more dramatic stuff as well. The death scene, for instance. And you're very right -- I guess that's one of those instances where you don't really need last words to make a poignant death scene. And I think one instance where it was a step up from LOTF...well, keep in mind that this is very YMMV here, but one of my personal most hated moments of the series is in Inferno when Han says that Caedus should have died in the Vong Wars. I mean...I dunno; maybe I'm being a little soft here, but that actually got me angry at Han. (Like I said, very YMMV) In TFA, I thought it was a lovely gesture to have him cup Kylo's face before falling into the pit. And yeah, you're so very right...even after Kylo put a lightsaber hole in him. That's...damn, Han.
And I remember another pretty powerful scene prior to that, when Han meets up with Leia and says, "I saw our son." That was just...God, poor Han and Leia both.
"Clean his chrono" -- ha! That's a really awesome phrase. Seriously. :) And yeah, Rey definitely had a lot of reason to want to kick his butt. I actually read somewhere that Abrams had Han killed off to present Kylo Ren as more of a threat but...yeah. Poor Han. That just really sucked he had to get killed off like that.
I think your sister's really spot-on. It's definitely more prominent in the novelization and the original script than in the film. There's even a moment in the novelization where Ren muses that killing Han didn't really give him the strength it should have. (Also known as "no shit, Sherlock!") I think it really could have come across more clearly in the film (although there is a moment when Ren actually looks stunned he did what he did. It's a split-second, but it's there). But yeah, it could have come through a little clearer.
You pretty much nailed why Finn is so awesome. I mean, he's funny and his arc is actually very, very well-handled. And yes, his scene with Rey, heartbreaking as it was, was a refreshing twist on the whole Liar Revealed thing. (I really hate that trope too. It just brings the movie to a screeching halt and requires a lot of the cast to just leave their common sense at the door) And it was very underplayed as well. And I'm looking forward to seeing him in Episode Eight (and dear God, I hope he'll be okay!)
Re: Response part 1arkan2January 11 2016, 20:15:23 UTC
Good to talk to you again, as well, and happy new year. My Christmas was pretty low-key, as I'm currently living out of state and my friends were all celebrating the holidays elsewhere. I mainly spent the day having an early Christmas dinner with my hosts' extended family (they even got me a rad bead bracelet), and watching the latest documentary about the Yes Men (a couple of activist pranksters). And I had a nearly two-hour Google hangout with my mom and my sisters talking about ... The Force Awakens. Fun times.
Yeah, it's a bit unfortunate about missing the Apocalypse trailer, but I wouldn't say it sucks. Now if I miss the movie in theaters, too, that will be too bad.
They made the Death Star comparison during the mission briefing scene, yes.
I actually didn't mind Kylo's rage fits; he at least, seems to confine his the damage to inanimate objects rather than his own people. During that video hangout, one of my sisters pointed out that when we first see him go off like that, it could be interpreted as a childish tantrum, or as a powerful and dangerous person unleashing his primal rage. It's only after he takes off his mask and we see and hear him in all his emo glory that it becomes locked in as the first.
I could never get past Sacrifice; the mere thought of spending another nanosecond in Darth Ripoff (the First)'s head made me cringe. Still, what you say seems in line with the general trajectory of the Legacy Era of killing off the main characters, turning them evil, or making them into complete assholes (or a combination of the above). Just as well I bailed out when I did, by all accounts.
"Clean his chrono" -- ha! That's a really awesome phrase. Seriously. :)
I'm sure I didn't originate it, but I can't remember where I got it from, now.
I actually read somewhere that Abrams had Han killed off to present Kylo Ren as more of a threat
In that case, boy did he miss the boat, casting Adam Driver in the role, and having him remove his mask. Really, though, killing off an unarmed, non Force-sensitive old man makes Kylo despicable, but hardly intimidating. A better way to do that would have been to have Kylo manifest more impressive Force abilities like freezing Poe's blaster bolt in mid-air. How about having him take out an X-Wing or two using only a Force attack or his lightsaber? That would present him as a serious threat.
(I really hate that trope too. It just brings the movie to a screeching halt and requires a lot of the cast to just leave their common sense at the door)
I think you've touched upon one of the reasons why I find Rey and Finn's temporary parting - and Han's death, for that matter - palatable, and even moving. I'm not averse to tragic events like deaths and break ups in fiction per se; the problem I often have is that so often these instances are plot- rather than character-driven, and they require in turn that the characters be operating at well below their maximum capacity (to paraphrase a term from a book on fiction writing I read a few months ago). When the characters are operating at their maximum capacity and things still go wrong, now that's powerful.
Re: Response part 1ladyhadhafangJanuary 11 2016, 21:13:39 UTC
That's good to hear. :) I had a good Christmas, even though I kind of had some...well, health issues, I guess I should say. And all of it sounds fun!
And here's hoping that you don't miss X-Men Apocalypse.
Yeah, Adam Driver...he's pretty nonthreatening, actually. I mean, I can understand Abrams trying to unsettle the viewers by presenting this kind of normal-looking guy, but the thing is...well, he's not really that scary.
Oh God, don't even get me started. I mean, there was the whole Boba Fett thing (I mean, Fett's self-righteous tracts just got on my nerves), things like that. (And Caedus emotionally manipulating Tahiri. Even if he does regret it, it's still a scummy thing to do to someone who lost her boyfriend -- and horrifically, at that!)
It's still a really awesome phrase. I should use it. :)
Very well-said! I mean, there could have definitely been a lot of opportunities for Kylo to just show off.
Maximum capacity vs. operating well below their maximum capacity -- I like that. I think it really does sum things up beautifully.
And that really sucks regarding the X-Men Apocalypse thing. Seriously.
Yeah, as I said to eldritch once, one of the rare things I disliked about TFA was that it did occasionally feel like The Original Trilogy's Greatest Hits. And the attack on Starkiller Base did feel a bit like that. (And Starkiller Base did feel like a Bigger and Badder Death Star -- I think they even basically pointed it out during the briefing in the movie)
Yeah, that is something I realized about Kylo and Caedus both. Maybe they're going for the "evil never dies" thing and "history repeats itself", but it is a bit tiresome. And it does lend to some really depressing stuff regarding Anakin's ultimate sacrifice, what Luke and co. fought for, etc. And Kylo...I think he's a bit of a mixed bag. He kind of has some pretty good moments, like with Rey (I mean, however you interpret the relationship, he does seem to treat her a little better than others in the film...not that that's saying much), and Han, etc., but some of his scenes came off as silly (such as his slicing up the computer terminals. I actually had to hold back a snicker first time I watched it because it was kind of ridiculous, although I did find it a bit humorous with the two stormtroopers, in response to his second "Kylo Smash" moment, were like, "Okay, let's get out of here." At the same time, poor stormtroopers). Like I said, mixed bag.
Ah. Good point about the 29 vs. 30 thing. Didn't think of that.
Harrison Ford was amazing! I know he did some really great stuff with the more comedic material in the movie, and of course the more dramatic stuff as well. The death scene, for instance. And you're very right -- I guess that's one of those instances where you don't really need last words to make a poignant death scene. And I think one instance where it was a step up from LOTF...well, keep in mind that this is very YMMV here, but one of my personal most hated moments of the series is in Inferno when Han says that Caedus should have died in the Vong Wars. I mean...I dunno; maybe I'm being a little soft here, but that actually got me angry at Han. (Like I said, very YMMV) In TFA, I thought it was a lovely gesture to have him cup Kylo's face before falling into the pit. And yeah, you're so very right...even after Kylo put a lightsaber hole in him. That's...damn, Han.
And I remember another pretty powerful scene prior to that, when Han meets up with Leia and says, "I saw our son." That was just...God, poor Han and Leia both.
"Clean his chrono" -- ha! That's a really awesome phrase. Seriously. :) And yeah, Rey definitely had a lot of reason to want to kick his butt. I actually read somewhere that Abrams had Han killed off to present Kylo Ren as more of a threat but...yeah. Poor Han. That just really sucked he had to get killed off like that.
I think your sister's really spot-on. It's definitely more prominent in the novelization and the original script than in the film. There's even a moment in the novelization where Ren muses that killing Han didn't really give him the strength it should have. (Also known as "no shit, Sherlock!") I think it really could have come across more clearly in the film (although there is a moment when Ren actually looks stunned he did what he did. It's a split-second, but it's there). But yeah, it could have come through a little clearer.
You pretty much nailed why Finn is so awesome. I mean, he's funny and his arc is actually very, very well-handled. And yes, his scene with Rey, heartbreaking as it was, was a refreshing twist on the whole Liar Revealed thing. (I really hate that trope too. It just brings the movie to a screeching halt and requires a lot of the cast to just leave their common sense at the door) And it was very underplayed as well. And I'm looking forward to seeing him in Episode Eight (and dear God, I hope he'll be okay!)
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Yeah, it's a bit unfortunate about missing the Apocalypse trailer, but I wouldn't say it sucks. Now if I miss the movie in theaters, too, that will be too bad.
They made the Death Star comparison during the mission briefing scene, yes.
I actually didn't mind Kylo's rage fits; he at least, seems to confine his the damage to inanimate objects rather than his own people. During that video hangout, one of my sisters pointed out that when we first see him go off like that, it could be interpreted as a childish tantrum, or as a powerful and dangerous person unleashing his primal rage. It's only after he takes off his mask and we see and hear him in all his emo glory that it becomes locked in as the first.
I could never get past Sacrifice; the mere thought of spending another nanosecond in Darth Ripoff (the First)'s head made me cringe. Still, what you say seems in line with the general trajectory of the Legacy Era of killing off the main characters, turning them evil, or making them into complete assholes (or a combination of the above). Just as well I bailed out when I did, by all accounts.
"Clean his chrono" -- ha! That's a really awesome phrase. Seriously. :)
I'm sure I didn't originate it, but I can't remember where I got it from, now.
I actually read somewhere that Abrams had Han killed off to present Kylo Ren as more of a threat
In that case, boy did he miss the boat, casting Adam Driver in the role, and having him remove his mask. Really, though, killing off an unarmed, non Force-sensitive old man makes Kylo despicable, but hardly intimidating. A better way to do that would have been to have Kylo manifest more impressive Force abilities like freezing Poe's blaster bolt in mid-air. How about having him take out an X-Wing or two using only a Force attack or his lightsaber? That would present him as a serious threat.
(I really hate that trope too. It just brings the movie to a screeching halt and requires a lot of the cast to just leave their common sense at the door)
I think you've touched upon one of the reasons why I find Rey and Finn's temporary parting - and Han's death, for that matter - palatable, and even moving. I'm not averse to tragic events like deaths and break ups in fiction per se; the problem I often have is that so often these instances are plot- rather than character-driven, and they require in turn that the characters be operating at well below their maximum capacity (to paraphrase a term from a book on fiction writing I read a few months ago). When the characters are operating at their maximum capacity and things still go wrong, now that's powerful.
Reply
And here's hoping that you don't miss X-Men Apocalypse.
Yeah, Adam Driver...he's pretty nonthreatening, actually. I mean, I can understand Abrams trying to unsettle the viewers by presenting this kind of normal-looking guy, but the thing is...well, he's not really that scary.
Oh God, don't even get me started. I mean, there was the whole Boba Fett thing (I mean, Fett's self-righteous tracts just got on my nerves), things like that. (And Caedus emotionally manipulating Tahiri. Even if he does regret it, it's still a scummy thing to do to someone who lost her boyfriend -- and horrifically, at that!)
It's still a really awesome phrase. I should use it. :)
Very well-said! I mean, there could have definitely been a lot of opportunities for Kylo to just show off.
Maximum capacity vs. operating well below their maximum capacity -- I like that. I think it really does sum things up beautifully.
Reply
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