I guess so. I just tend to go for the pitiable because I think if one can pity a villain and hate them at the same time, it's definitely an achievement. That and I guess I want to understand people. Even if it is...well, via pity. But that's definitely true. After all, there are other ways to build complexity, such as moments when they're just being normal, moments where they have to team up with the heroes, having people they care about, etc. (I'm certain there's more) And yeah, I can definitely imagine that.
(What would you say are the best examples of villainous characters being complex without necessarily being pitiful, BTW? I think it might make a good frame of reference, really)
Ha, that's definitely true. You want to keep your villain smart (I mean, really, unless it's a parody, I don't think James Bond-like villains really work), but you don't want to take them into (if you pardon the term; I just think it's accurate) Villain Sue territory where everything's immaculately planned out and such. Because villains, like people, have their moments of overconfidence, their lapses in judgment, loss of control, etc. Sometimes it comes from a mistake made in the heat of the moment. And yeah, suspension of disbelief is definitely key here.
I mean, I do understand why pitiable works, and it is good, I'm just mentioning that in case you wanted someone to try throwing some other angles at you ;)
W.r.t examples--(with the caveat that YMMV, particularly as to whether or not the villain in question does have a pitiful background)
Off the bat, there's the Lord Ruler in Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn series. He's basically your typical villain, with a good side of sullen racial superiority, until Books 2-3, and even then, he's not really likeable or pitiable, you just understand why he's a kind of necessary evil. You could say he fills out somewhat.
Alex Verus, of the Alex Verus series. Not entire villain, but the most recent book makes clear he can be a villain--it's just your perspective. He does have a bit of pity written into his past, so...
I would also suggest Prince Eugene of Tielen (debatable--he plans a lot, and he's ruthless, the complexity does come, and it slowly shifts to portraying him in a positive light, but he's one of those characters who is a Fridge Villain) and Rieuk, both from Sarah Ash.
One of the prime examples though, IMO, would be people like Mrs Coulter or Lord Asriel. But again, YMMV, but I think there's a good number of them out there.
(What would you say are the best examples of villainous characters being complex without necessarily being pitiful, BTW? I think it might make a good frame of reference, really)
Ha, that's definitely true. You want to keep your villain smart (I mean, really, unless it's a parody, I don't think James Bond-like villains really work), but you don't want to take them into (if you pardon the term; I just think it's accurate) Villain Sue territory where everything's immaculately planned out and such. Because villains, like people, have their moments of overconfidence, their lapses in judgment, loss of control, etc. Sometimes it comes from a mistake made in the heat of the moment. And yeah, suspension of disbelief is definitely key here.
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W.r.t examples--(with the caveat that YMMV, particularly as to whether or not the villain in question does have a pitiful background)
Off the bat, there's the Lord Ruler in Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn series. He's basically your typical villain, with a good side of sullen racial superiority, until Books 2-3, and even then, he's not really likeable or pitiable, you just understand why he's a kind of necessary evil. You could say he fills out somewhat.
Alex Verus, of the Alex Verus series. Not entire villain, but the most recent book makes clear he can be a villain--it's just your perspective. He does have a bit of pity written into his past, so...
I would also suggest Prince Eugene of Tielen (debatable--he plans a lot, and he's ruthless, the complexity does come, and it slowly shifts to portraying him in a positive light, but he's one of those characters who is a Fridge Villain) and Rieuk, both from Sarah Ash.
One of the prime examples though, IMO, would be people like Mrs Coulter or Lord Asriel. But again, YMMV, but I think there's a good number of them out there.
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And those villains sound interesting! I'm going to have to check them out. :)
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