I agree with you completely. SV has its faults and they're totally different shows, but you've always said it so well, that even with all the alien/superhero/sci-fi stuff, it has heart where TVD often misses the mark.
Candice Accola hits the right notes almost always for me, I love what the show has done with her this season and last night just felt so Caroline and yet it was so painful to see Matt freak out with her. And yet his reaction is so real - I'm so glad the show didn't make this easy. They were a highlight for me last night.
Luka's death, oh Mary, I hated it so much. And I hadn't even thought of it that way but what a wonderful way to bring him into the show more, as a mirror to Matt. But I don't think the show ever intended to do anything with these two characters.
I did laugh when he kicked Katherine out of bed but me and Damon, I have so many issues with the character, it's hard for me to be invested in him.
Word, on Bonnie. This is what I've always felt on the show as well, in the way they've structured her narrative arc, as inconsistent as it can sometimes be. She is the one who seems to be willing to sacrifice almost everything on behalf of her friends but she's also the one most capable of making difficult decisions that might alienate her from the people she loves - I've always found that interesting. I wonder if that is how it will unfold. The relationships between the three girls have also always been my favorite element on the show, the most real, that's where the 'heart' - and those are the moments when I sit there and just think, 'Yes.' (Sort of like Kent family moments on SV or Clark/Lois moments, you know?).
Thank the Lord, sometimes, because I hang out on the TVD board every once in a while, I feel like I'm a lunatic, lol.
Here's the difference between you and other people: you see the latent racism present in this narrative. And now, that we see it....we can't un-see it. Yet, we live in a world where sometimes it can feel like you are screaming at the top of your lunges like.....doesn't everyone see it? Why doesn't everyone see the problem with this? But we live in a world where people DON'T see these things. And sometimes, even when you point them out....they still remain blind.
It's sort of like the latent (and sometimes blatant) misogyny that exists towards Lois Lane (and sometimes Diana as well) in the larger DC Universe amongst many male comic book writers and fanboys. If you were to visit some of the DC message boards, some of the comments made about Lois Lane as a character would stun you with their sexism and misogyny. There are people out there who legitimately think that the best way to make the Superman mythos "fresh" is to create new (disposable) love interests. They fail to see that the way you make a story fresh is to WRITE GOOD STORIES THAT MAKE SENSE---not replace the lone female character that has been there since the beginning with random females that can come and go in a meaningless fashion like Bond girls---never to be heard from again or have any lingering importance. There are people who are only too happy to call Lois a "bitch" "Shrew" "whore" but then in the same breath talk about how "badass" Bruce Wayne is when he beats the shit out of people. There are people who will state with complete sincerity that Clark shouldn't be married to Lois because he can't fuck her with all of his strength--that Diana is a better match because he can fuck her harder. I couldn't make this stuff up. Let's put aside the fact that the sex argument reduces Clark's entire character development to being about fucking---it also takes the only female member of the DCU Trinity---arguably the most popular FEMALE superhero in the DCU---and reduces her to being a sexual object and nothing more. And it takes Lois, a character who was created to be a feminist icon in a time where there were barely ANY feminist icons--and reduces her worth to being a sexual object. All of these things are deeply, deeply troubling, sexist, misogynisitc statements. And once you see how disturbing they are....you cannot UN-SEE them. It's very upsetting. And you stand there thinking....don't other people see how wrong this is? And some people do. But others don't. And that's one of the harsh realities for women and people of color in this world. Some people just do not see it.
I'm going to be blunt for a minute: Just as there are men (and women sadly) in this world that are blinded to the latent and sometimes blatant sexism and discrimination that STILL occurs CONSTANTLY in our media that treat women like sexual objects there is a large percentage of the white population who is just completely blind to the lack of diversity and disturbing whitewashing and racial injustices still present in our culture. I am a white woman. I've been mistaken as a woman of color many times in my life because I have olive skin, very dark hair and "ethnic" (meaning not the stereotypical Anglo-saxon "All American") features. After a day at the beach, my skin is dark. I wear sunscreen to protect myself from premature aging but I've never had a sunburn. In college, I still remember working as a waitress at a high class restaurant and had the men at the table ask me what my background was because they were taking "bets" on what I was. ::sigh:: When I see women on television who look like me and share my background....they are usually playing the wife or mistress of a mobster or they are indulging in some other stereotype. When I see men on television who look like my father or my brother....they are usually playing criminals or other dumb-ass stereotypes.
I am not blind to the way our media and popculture often stacks the deck in certain ways. My eyes have been opened. When I see a television show with an all white cast...I notice. When I see a show systematically kill off every single black character on the freaking show...I notice. And I question. And I want to scream at the top of my lungs...why doesn't everyone else see this? I can't be the only one who sees this. Just as I want to yell and scream about the way it still seems to be ok to use women as plot devices and brutally kill them off in narratives just as a man to cause a man pain and "growth" throughout a story. But it can feel like you are screaming and no one is listening.
f The Vampire Diaries wants to address injustice done to witches hundreds of years ago by making some kind of connection to slavery...then freaking DO IT. ADDRESS IT Don't pretend that this ridiculous racism isn't freaking there. If you want to tell a story that indicates that the black people of Mystic Falls were used and abused then don't back down. Make it count. Address the real issue.
And if you are going to kill people off your show repeatedly....then MAKE IT MATTER. Treat life as if it's worth something Because right now, that show treats death like it's just a pile of bodies and not people's lives repeatedly being taken. I can't feel the loss anymore because the show doesn't value life enough for me to feel it.
Smallville has screwed up a lot over the years and I will never forgive them for what they did to Jimmy. And I will always believe that they should have brought Jimmy's death more into the equation with Chloe in season 9. But at least the deaths on Smallville were treated with the gravity they deserved. Jonathan Kent's death was devastating to Clark and had lasting repercussions for years. Alicia's death wasn't followed up on as it should have been....but when it happened.....Clark was allowed to cry and weep and yell and sit by her grave. When Lionel died....Clark was allowed to go to his grave and show him respect. When Jimmy died....he was able to die a hero saving Chloe and his death had incredible repercussions for Clark. The bottom line was that their LIVES MATTERED. I felt their loss. I grieved for them. But on Vampire Diaries...it's all about shock value. It doesn't feel like the show cares about the fact that life is being taken away. And that's a real problem for me.
I just want to kiss this post. Yes, to everything.
This show is so depressing for me sometimes and for these very reasons. I'm a woman of color, and I remember (you know this) being so excited to have a show on which I could find people who looked like me. And when I found out that they actually held the power to drive the plot, they were actually important characters, I was really excited. But the show with it's many missteps has taken that initial excitement away. And it's beyond disappointing.
The story has so much potential re: race and women, and yet it's mostly squandered (mostly the race potential) because they don't seem brave enough to actually grapple with these ideas. It's sad.
TVD's approach to death is the most galling of problems I have with the show and with every single character except arguably Bonnie who is the only one to have shown with some consistency that she actually gives a damn about the loss of life outside the little clique. On SV Clark Kent feels every single death personally; even on BTVS and ATS, the characters held a value for human life that was admirable. But on TVD, it's hard to support these characters when they all display such a casual disregard for life; when they appear to be so completely selfish that they can't see past their own noses to the people around them (selfishness is fine, I get it, but the show takes it to a level that I can't understand). I have to blame it on the pacing. Because TVD is in such an awful rush to get somewhere - where that is, I do not know - it rarely takes the time to let these character grapple with issues, events, and that privilege is rarely accorded to anyone outside the core three. Just so bad.
Then again, the show does have Michael Trevino as part of the cast. A Mexican American man who's ethnic identity was pretty much wiped out by playing someone named "Lockwood" on the show. And it's not like he was cast as a violent, aggressive man who was willing to date rape or brutally hurt people. Oh wait a minute.....::facepalm::
Bonnie who is the only one to have shown with some consistency that she actually gives a damn about the loss of life outside the little clique Exactly. This is why I always thought that she would be the one to save everything, meaning not just the clique, but Mystic Falls as a whole. She not only has power, but thinks beyond the group to others. I *loved* her so much for telling Caroline "He's still dead," after C ate some guy after she first turned and everyone else kinda shrugged and acted like she needed some house training rather than she just ended a life and ruined those of the people who loved him. This entire thread is amazeballs. TY!
That was a brilliant rant, Audrey! I don't have your ability (or Magali's) to express effectively my opinions and thoughts about stuff - mainly because it's a bit hard when English is not my first language - but I've got to say, you (and Magali) have managed to put into blunt and simple words EXACTLY how I preview things and how those things usually affect me to the point where I no longer care about the message they're trying to sell. And it's true: once you see those things, they are there forever.
Regarding TVD: I've got nothing to add to what you've said. For me, it's just another The CW show, all about the OMFG shock value and with no value whatsoever.
Candice Accola hits the right notes almost always for me, I love what the show has done with her this season and last night just felt so Caroline and yet it was so painful to see Matt freak out with her. And yet his reaction is so real - I'm so glad the show didn't make this easy. They were a highlight for me last night.
Luka's death, oh Mary, I hated it so much. And I hadn't even thought of it that way but what a wonderful way to bring him into the show more, as a mirror to Matt. But I don't think the show ever intended to do anything with these two characters.
I did laugh when he kicked Katherine out of bed but me and Damon, I have so many issues with the character, it's hard for me to be invested in him.
Word, on Bonnie. This is what I've always felt on the show as well, in the way they've structured her narrative arc, as inconsistent as it can sometimes be. She is the one who seems to be willing to sacrifice almost everything on behalf of her friends but she's also the one most capable of making difficult decisions that might alienate her from the people she loves - I've always found that interesting. I wonder if that is how it will unfold. The relationships between the three girls have also always been my favorite element on the show, the most real, that's where the 'heart' - and those are the moments when I sit there and just think, 'Yes.' (Sort of like Kent family moments on SV or Clark/Lois moments, you know?).
Thank the Lord, sometimes, because I hang out on the TVD board every once in a while, I feel like I'm a lunatic, lol.
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It's sort of like the latent (and sometimes blatant) misogyny that exists towards Lois Lane (and sometimes Diana as well) in the larger DC Universe amongst many male comic book writers and fanboys. If you were to visit some of the DC message boards, some of the comments made about Lois Lane as a character would stun you with their sexism and misogyny. There are people out there who legitimately think that the best way to make the Superman mythos "fresh" is to create new (disposable) love interests. They fail to see that the way you make a story fresh is to WRITE GOOD STORIES THAT MAKE SENSE---not replace the lone female character that has been there since the beginning with random females that can come and go in a meaningless fashion like Bond girls---never to be heard from again or have any lingering importance. There are people who are only too happy to call Lois a "bitch" "Shrew" "whore" but then in the same breath talk about how "badass" Bruce Wayne is when he beats the shit out of people. There are people who will state with complete sincerity that Clark shouldn't be married to Lois because he can't fuck her with all of his strength--that Diana is a better match because he can fuck her harder. I couldn't make this stuff up. Let's put aside the fact that the sex argument reduces Clark's entire character development to being about fucking---it also takes the only female member of the DCU Trinity---arguably the most popular FEMALE superhero in the DCU---and reduces her to being a sexual object and nothing more. And it takes Lois, a character who was created to be a feminist icon in a time where there were barely ANY feminist icons--and reduces her worth to being a sexual object. All of these things are deeply, deeply troubling, sexist, misogynisitc statements. And once you see how disturbing they are....you cannot UN-SEE them. It's very upsetting. And you stand there thinking....don't other people see how wrong this is? And some people do. But others don't. And that's one of the harsh realities for women and people of color in this world. Some people just do not see it.
I'm going to be blunt for a minute: Just as there are men (and women sadly) in this world that are blinded to the latent and sometimes blatant sexism and discrimination that STILL occurs CONSTANTLY in our media that treat women like sexual objects there is a large percentage of the white population who is just completely blind to the lack of diversity and disturbing whitewashing and racial injustices still present in our culture. I am a white woman. I've been mistaken as a woman of color many times in my life because I have olive skin, very dark hair and "ethnic" (meaning not the stereotypical Anglo-saxon "All American") features. After a day at the beach, my skin is dark. I wear sunscreen to protect myself from premature aging but I've never had a sunburn. In college, I still remember working as a waitress at a high class restaurant and had the men at the table ask me what my background was because they were taking "bets" on what I was. ::sigh:: When I see women on television who look like me and share my background....they are usually playing the wife or mistress of a mobster or they are indulging in some other stereotype. When I see men on television who look like my father or my brother....they are usually playing criminals or other dumb-ass stereotypes.
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f The Vampire Diaries wants to address injustice done to witches hundreds of years ago by making some kind of connection to slavery...then freaking DO IT. ADDRESS IT Don't pretend that this ridiculous racism isn't freaking there. If you want to tell a story that indicates that the black people of Mystic Falls were used and abused then don't back down. Make it count. Address the real issue.
And if you are going to kill people off your show repeatedly....then MAKE IT MATTER. Treat life as if it's worth something Because right now, that show treats death like it's just a pile of bodies and not people's lives repeatedly being taken. I can't feel the loss anymore because the show doesn't value life enough for me to feel it.
Smallville has screwed up a lot over the years and I will never forgive them for what they did to Jimmy. And I will always believe that they should have brought Jimmy's death more into the equation with Chloe in season 9. But at least the deaths on Smallville were treated with the gravity they deserved. Jonathan Kent's death was devastating to Clark and had lasting repercussions for years. Alicia's death wasn't followed up on as it should have been....but when it happened.....Clark was allowed to cry and weep and yell and sit by her grave. When Lionel died....Clark was allowed to go to his grave and show him respect. When Jimmy died....he was able to die a hero saving Chloe and his death had incredible repercussions for Clark. The bottom line was that their LIVES MATTERED. I felt their loss. I grieved for them. But on Vampire Diaries...it's all about shock value. It doesn't feel like the show cares about the fact that life is being taken away. And that's a real problem for me.
Sorry for the rant. I heart you!
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This show is so depressing for me sometimes and for these very reasons. I'm a woman of color, and I remember (you know this) being so excited to have a show on which I could find people who looked like me. And when I found out that they actually held the power to drive the plot, they were actually important characters, I was really excited. But the show with it's many missteps has taken that initial excitement away. And it's beyond disappointing.
The story has so much potential re: race and women, and yet it's mostly squandered (mostly the race potential) because they don't seem brave enough to actually grapple with these ideas. It's sad.
TVD's approach to death is the most galling of problems I have with the show and with every single character except arguably Bonnie who is the only one to have shown with some consistency that she actually gives a damn about the loss of life outside the little clique. On SV Clark Kent feels every single death personally; even on BTVS and ATS, the characters held a value for human life that was admirable. But on TVD, it's hard to support these characters when they all display such a casual disregard for life; when they appear to be so completely selfish that they can't see past their own noses to the people around them (selfishness is fine, I get it, but the show takes it to a level that I can't understand). I have to blame it on the pacing. Because TVD is in such an awful rush to get somewhere - where that is, I do not know - it rarely takes the time to let these character grapple with issues, events, and that privilege is rarely accorded to anyone outside the core three. Just so bad.
Rant away! :)
*hugs*
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Exactly. This is why I always thought that she would be the one to save everything, meaning not just the clique, but Mystic Falls as a whole. She not only has power, but thinks beyond the group to others. I *loved* her so much for telling Caroline "He's still dead," after C ate some guy after she first turned and everyone else kinda shrugged and acted like she needed some house training rather than she just ended a life and ruined those of the people who loved him.
This entire thread is amazeballs. TY!
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Regarding TVD: I've got nothing to add to what you've said. For me, it's just another The CW show, all about the OMFG shock value and with no value whatsoever.
Thank you so much for the awesomeness, guys!
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