freedom to decide
Everyone seems to be making MGS4 posts, so I guess I'll throw in my very small two cents. 8D;
( No spoilers, but cut because I know it's frustrating to hear about stuff if you don't have the game. :/ )
( No spoilers, but cut because I know it's frustrating to hear about stuff if you don't have the game. :/ )
My first reaction at Big Boss' admittedly tl;dl explanation was "GODDAMMIT OCELOT YOU FOOLED ME COMPLETELY IN YOUR MOST RIDICULOUS EXPLOIT EVER WHY KOJIMA WHY BUT HAY I GUESS I EXPECT TO BE MINDFUCKED SO... NO WAIT I CAN'T LET GO OF MY LIQUID LOVE BAAAWWW." Since then, I've been trying to convince myself it was all Ocelot so I'm not a bitchy, canon-rejecting fan for the sake of my own personal likings and so I'm not disappointed when it all comes crashing down (which it kind of did already in the confirmation of Ocelot's pretending in the wiki, which I emoed about for a few hours but am now taking like a champ).
HOWEVER.
HOWEVER.
Above everything else, there is one piece of canon evidence for Liquid's existence that is inarguable and that I just cannot get out of my head no matter how much I try.
KATIE.
WHEN LIQUID DIED, SNAKE AND MERYL WERE THE ONLY ONES PRESENT
HOW, THEN, HOW COULD OCELOT POSSIBLY BE ABLE TO REFERENCE "FOX...?" "...DIE!"?????
Seriously, unless Ocelot had them BUGGED WITH MICROPHONES or something (which doesn't make sense, considering he hadn't yet formulated the Liquid possession part of his plan) and unless Naomi somehow tipped him off by hearing it through the codec (which is a long shot and I also don't think she was in the control room at the time), HOW??? IT IS IMPOSSIBLE. And it's not something they could have really planned for, so.... BUH?
PLEASE TELL ME I AM NOT DELUSIONAL HERE besides, I can't help the thought of Ocelot & Liquid's spirit making a truce and working in cahoots together towards the same goal being REALLY REALLY AWESOME
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HOLY FUCK DUDE I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT THAT
holy crap omg you're right :OOOOOOOOO dude DUDE
HOW THE HELL COULD HAVE KNOWN, SERIOUSLY
it's not like this series just kinda throws around random inconsistencies either except when it does *cough* SO WTF WTF WTF
MAYBE
MAYBE BB DIDN'T KNOW? MAYBE I DON'T KNOW I STILL THINK THAT THE WHOLE SORROW-BEING-HIS-DAD-THING IS A GOOD ENOUGH EXPLANATION
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Seriously, I'm trying to be fair and find every Ocelot-abiding explanation for this to make up for my own bias and am coming up with... not much. SO I'M GLAD YOU'RE REASSURING ME I'M NOT JUST BLIND TO THE TRUTH OR SOMETHING. D: BECAUSE SERIOUSLY, I CAN'T GET THIS OUT OF MY HEAD
Lemme show you my table. 8D The Ocelot side tends to be shorter since the evidence is more concrete, but yeah.
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OKAY HERE:
LIQUID OCELOT
WHO THE FUCK WAS THAT GUY?
OUTRAGEOUSLY OCELOTLUDICROUSLY LIQUID
Pretty much stated as canon by Big Boss and the official encyclopedia. (Big Boss: "Ocelots do love playing as Snakes" and "one person can become another" further reinforces this.)
Big Boss refers to Liquid Ocelot's actions as only "Liquid's" at a couple of points; in addition, due to his and Liquid Ocelot's never meeting in person, it's unsure if he's such a good authority on how the whole thing worked; it's very possible that Ocelot got more than he originally bargained for.
Ocelot states clearly at the end of his fight with Snake that he is "Liquid's doppelganger"; Big Boss also repeats this, making clear that no, he is not truly Liquid.
While Ocelot states he is only a "doppelganger" by the end of the final battle, it only happens after a good amount of Snake beating on him; if Ocelot truly did have some amount of control on which psyche he let take over, why did he decide to fight Snake to the death before he got to see Big Boss alive, the objective he's apparently strived towards for the past few decades?
Liquid Ocelot clearly has a metallic arm during the end battle; this is also stated in the official encyclopedia. (To give both sides a fair chance: The end of his arm does look human and the fleshy part does begin at the place where the original hand was cut off by Gray Fox; HOWEVER, this could just be advanced cybernetics designed to look like an actual hand.)
Liquid needed his arm grafted on Ocelot to begin possessing him in MGS2, but given Ocelot's being the son of the Sorrow, and thus someone genetically in-tune with the other side, it's not unlikely that removing the arm didn't do much to shake Liquid's spirit.
"Big Boss'" body on EVA's hands clearly had the wrong eye missing; while it could be the body was too obscured until being burned to tell, it seems weird that EVA would miss that unless she was in on some kind of overarching plan
Despite the eye thing, EVA does ultimately throw herself into "Big Boss'" flames and is deeply affected by both it and Ocelot's being Liquidfied, so she probably wasn't in on the grand scheme. If that is true, why would she not know about the plan if Ocelot/ADAM and EVA were as close as EVA makes it seem, and if she did, why would she state that the soul in Ocelot's body is Liquid's? (Perhaps she was in on the first stages before Liquid's soul took over for sure?)
Ocelot's being "Liquid" can be explained by hypnotherapy and his own innate ability to fool everyone he comes across; he was convinced he was Liquid, which was why he was so convincing.
Snake and Meryl were the only people present at Liquid's death. How, then, would Ocelot be able to reference the "FOX..." "...DIE" dialogue in the REX vs. RAY scene, even under heavy hypnotherapy?
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WHAT EXPLAINS ALL OF IT?
My theory? Ocelot and Liquid were working together, trading off power and compromising with each other on the specifics of their combined objectives. Liquid wanted world domination and to prove himself to his father; Ocelot wanted that father revived.
Through most of the game, you see Liquid Ocelot act as Liquid due to Liquid's being a control freak, but Ocelot's voice is the one used due to their mutual coexistence. Liquid does whatever he wants, even deceiving EVA about how much control he has over Ocelot and causing her death, so long as he abides by Ocelot's plan to revive Big Boss. In the end, this is counterproductive in relation to Liquid's dream of world domination and Outer Heaven, but it's the only way to bring back Big Boss, and Liquid allows this to happen because of his life's desire to take down Big Boss himself, having been robbed of that revenge by Snake. However, he feels he first needs to settle things with Snake once and for all.
Ocelot, on the other hand (literally haha), wants to see the physical manifestation of all his dreams come true but knows that if he lets Liquid live, he will brutally kill Big Boss and bring back the S.O.P. system for his own devices. Thus, Ocelot allows Liquid to take on Snake and get both of them killed, thereby allowing Big Boss to live (or at least die on his own terms) and locking Liquid out of the living world forever. Ocelot still gets the last laugh, knowing that Liquid can never beat Snake, who is, as they say, "pretty good."
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WEEP
Ocelot, on the other hand (literally haha), wants to see the physical manifestation of all his dreams come true but knows that if he lets Liquid live, he will brutally kill Big Boss and bring back the S.O.P. system for his own devices. Thus, Ocelot allows Liquid to take on Snake and get both of them killed, thereby allowing Big Boss to live (or at least die on his own terms) and locking Liquid out of the living world forever. Ocelot still gets the last laugh, knowing that Liquid can never beat Snake, who is, as they say, "pretty good."
WEEEEEEEEEEEEEP
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Liquid: WHAT. YOU.
Ocelot: Yeah, you were kinda stupid to make a deal with me.
Liquid: ......MOTHERFUCKER
ALSO, LIQUID'S HATE-ON FOR SNAKE AND OCELOT'S LOVE-ON FOR BIG BOSS MADE FOR A POTENT SNAKE-MOLESTING COMBINATION AMIRITE
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CHRONIC BACKSTABBING SYNDROME
DUDE YES
Y'KNOW I DIDN'T EVEN REALLY NOTICE HOW MUCH OCELOT LOOKS LIKE A POSSIBLE OLDER LIQUID UNTIL THE DOPPELGANGER LINE
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I LOVE HOW HE CANONLY WANTS BIG BOSS
LIKE
SERIOUSLY
IT'S ABOUT TWO NANOSECONDS AWAY FROM BEING CANON
HE IS PRETTY GOOD... IN BED
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[21:04] honestlyxokay: So.
[21:04] honestlyxokay: I had a thought in the shower
[21:05] honestlyxokay: BB talks about how "even now we don't have the technology to put one person's personality/soul/whatever into another's body"
[21:05] honestlyxokay: that's a total lie
[21:05] honestlyxokay: Psycho Mantis, who is DEAD
[21:05] honestlyxokay: was controlling Screaming Mantis
[21:05] thatdamnshowy: This is true!
[21:05] thatdamnshowy: Wtf.
[21:05] honestlyxokay: he wasn't even grafted onto her or anything
[21:05] thatdamnshowy: Big Boss, you are behind the times.
[21:05] honestlyxokay: nevermind y'know
[21:05] honestlyxokay: THE SORROW
[21:05] honestlyxokay: who keeps showing up in these games
EXPLAIN THIS TO ME
KOJIMA I THOUGHT YOU SAID NO MYSTERIES WERE GOING TO BE LEFT
YOU LIED, SIR
YOU LIED D8
btw I forgot to say this but I completely love the table you made XD the formatting is awesome and it's written really well
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Ooooh, that Psycho Mantis personality thing is a GOOD DAMN POINT. SEE, BIG BOSS IS CANONLY BEHIND THE TIMES and how could he know the grand plan when it happened after he died wtf he could be easily just getting the plan and not what actually... happened from some goon.
D'AW, thanks. I should post it up in an actual entry when I get my other thoughts together. SHARE THE DREAM AND CONVINCE THE MASSES AND ALL THAT
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nanakibh JUST MADE NYORO~N ICONS OF LIKE
EVERYONE
SO YOU SHOULD GO GET THE LIQUID ONE AND MAKE IT YOUR DEFAULT :D
^ SEE CHECK IT OUT, AND THERE ARE MOAR SO GO HERE
THOUGHT YOU'D LIKE THAT
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........YES well in a really pussy way since I uh clearly still use it the real reason is that I have like no money of my own BECAUSE I NEED TO GET A JOB
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