Is the worm turning?

[kynon]

Had to stop off to fill the car up this morning (GBP66 to put 50 litres in, ouch! For any North American residents reading, that's USD8.02 per gallon, in case you felt your gasoline prices were a bit high. For the old-school Brits, that's GBP9.62 per gallon. Anyway, I digress.), and I noticed a headline on one of the newspapers arrayed in the rack

Comments

[green_badger]

Hmmm... I think your argument falls down when our elected government utterly fails to stick to their manifesto. If we can't guarantee the government creating laws that are the will of the people, then we do need to allow prisoners to vote.

Of course the better solution would be some way of holding the government accountable. xxx

[kynon]

Unfortunately the previous gubmint (successfully) legally argued that manifestos aren't worth the paper they are written on, and that political parties are under no legal obligation to stick to what they said in those manifestos.

I don't follow the logic of your argument about governments not doing what the people want leading to giving prisoners the vote, I'm afraid.

AFAIAC, if convicted under due process of a crime, then your membership of society is under suspension, and you lose whatever rights (above basic human rights) you had as part of that society until you have paid the price.

[green_badger]

What's the point of manifestos at all then? Argh!

Anyway, the argument goes, that should the government randomly decide that as part of their Evil Tory Plan TM they're going to make being a goth illegal, and prosecute us all for going to Whitby, then after we'd been locked up for it we'd still be able to vote them out.

Of course if the laws are made according to manifestos and therefore (presumably) the will of the people, you don't need this as a safety clause. In which case I'm with you on suspending membership of society, etc. xxx

[kynon]

Unfortunately, with such minority-bashing, voting the gubmint out would require a hell of a lot more people to vote against them than just us dirty goffiks - and since most people in the Uk these days couldn't give a flying castlemaine about anything that doesn't *directly* affect them, it'd be porridge for us.

Also unfortunately, at the moment, the "will of the people" only extends as far as choosing who will act as our representative in parliament. After that, well, who knows?

[green_badger]

You're right, but that's the theory. :)

As you say, most people really don't seem to give a stuff about what doesn't directly affect them. Makes you wonder where the country's going. xxx

[cheekbones3]

There's also the problem that manifestos assume one party in power rather than coalition. Or rather, in the UK they have, as coalitions have been so rare.

People are whinging a lot about the Lib Dems going back on pledges. And Tories too no doubt. Well duh, since when did the minor partner in a coalition get to implement all their policies?

[green_badger]

That's an interesting point. Surely they can still vote for their manifesto promises though, even if they don't get implemented?

[cheekbones3]

Maybe so, but surely not if they signed an agreement to only pursue a limited number of them. A coalition isn't going to work without compromise, and they took the choice of implementing a limited number of their own policies and supporting a raft of unpalatable ones rather than fighting against every one from the opposition benches. I think that in the long run, this is clearly more effective at furthering their own agenda.

[green_badger]

I think unfortunately that a lot of people are going to blame them for the policies that were put in place that are against their manifesto. In the long run, they may have shot themselves in the foot.

Though I've just been hearing this morning that they're going to try to put gay marriage through, which would be good.

[cheekbones3]

You might be right - it's the increased profile and enaction of some policies balanced by the stigma of apparently selling out to gain power. We shall see.

[cheekbones3]

p.s. I love the green badger story by the way. Shame I lost my badger icons when I stopped giving money to this place!

[green_badger]

Thanks! :)
(I think you may be the only person who's ever read that, judging by the number of people who ask me why the name.)

[cheekbones3]

People are lazy :)

[kynon]

I have read that story!

[green_badger]

Exception that proves the rule, and all that. ;) xxx