A little bit of China-bashing

[kyllo_in_china]

Lately, there's been a string of negative news articles about China in the NYTimes.
I'm starting to wonder if the Times is just really anti-China, or if the Chinese government just really is that bad.

Probably both.

Comments

[wuyuansheng]

Every government has its own dirty tricks to make sure the people thinks in the same way the government does.

[kyllo_in_china]

Indeed. That includes both China and the US.

The difference that the US government's "dirty tricks" are much more subtle, and they're open to public debate and criticism. But that doesn't mean they're any less effective.

[wuyuansheng]

Agreed. People in US has lots more freedom of speech for sure, which I really like.

[kyllo_in_china]

So why do you think Chinese people so rarely talk about democracy and freedom of expression?

I have seen a few Chinese people argue with each other about democracy. But generally speaking, when these issues are brought up, especially around foreigners, Chinese people tend to want to change the subject.

I think they generally dislike hearing foreigners criticize their government, or criticizing their own government in front of foreigners, because it offends their sense of patriotism. Chinese people don't like feeling inferior to the West. To them, Western political ideals like freedom, democracy, and human rights are not as important as seeing China big and powerful enough to stand up to the Western countries that have bullied her around for so long.

[wuyuansheng]

True.

Who are you talking to? Students or middle age people?

Anyway, in general, people probably won't be bothered about democracy, freedom of speech that much. We all know the current political system is bound to stay, it will only change if the top decides to change it. Talking about it is really of minimal importance, one would rather choose to talk about business stuff, earning money and such.

[kyllo_in_china]

Mostly other college students.

But once, on a train, I got to listen in on a shouting match between some middle-aged Chinese men, about patriotism and democracy. I didn't understand all of it, since they were talking in 四川话, but I heard things like “你说你爱国，我不相信！中国人不爱国，中国人只有自私！美国人才爱国！” and such. Basically one guy was trying to convince his friends that Americans are the most patriotic, that the communist party is bad, and that democracy is best. The others responded by saying things like “中国的经济发展，你应该感谢共产党！”

I think you're right in that Chinese people would much rather talk about making money than politics. Which means that as long as the economy's doing well, the CCP will be popular. But if China's economic bubble suddenly bursts, there will be major political problems.

[wuyuansheng]

There are quite some people who firmly believe in the CCP. Though it is interesting that some one thinks that Americans are more patriotic. The recent anti-Japan demonstrations surely says otherwise.

What you said is true, as long as the economics is good, nobody really cares about the politics. That is exactly what is happening now in Singapore. Nobody talks about politics at all. China is borrowing a lot from Singapore, especially the business models. I hope the political insensitivity will not be borrowed over too.

[kyllo_in_china]

Now that I think about it, from a Chinese person's perspective, it would be really obnoxious to listen to foreigners who come to China and can't shut up about how great their countries are and how horrible the Chinese government is.

Even though I often criticize my own government, I still get a little irritated when Canadians and Europeans tell me how much they hate George W. Bush, or how awful they think the American political system is. It just sounds like they're insulting my country while bragging about how wonderful theirs is.

When I do talk about politics with Chinese people, I try not to sound self-righteous or conceited. But it's a challenge. From a very young age, we Americans are taught to be extremely proud of how free we are, and we're taught that democracy and freedom of speech are the most important things on earth. So, even though we criticize our leaders, most of us have very strong faith that our political system is the best in the world. Perhaps this is another one of those "dirty tricks" you referred to before

[wuyuansheng]

While I was in Canada, it was interesting to see how some of the Canadians think of G.W. Bush.

Em, I never had that in mind, now you come to talk of it, I think it is pretty much true. It is really some kind of brain washing. Yeah, for sure, freedom of speech is good, democracy is good. It doesn't mean it is equally good for every country in the world. Different countries have different cultural backgrounds and history. I really don't like the way US trying to export democracy to every country in the world.

But again, that's what super powers do. When times of military invasion is not possible, you do it through more subtle cultural ways -- Influence their ideas.

In China, japanese culture is also viewed as a form of "cultural invasion" rather than globalization.