And I have a few ideas of ways to do it, as a student (because there's no way I'm doing it as an English teacher, and having a BA in Chinese doesn't mean I can get a good job in Taiwan
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More on Studying in AsiaalissahApril 18 2005, 09:26:39 UTC
In my interviews with four Hong Kong universities, I didn't get any negative comments about being a foreigner. But I got some questions about why I want to come to Hong Kong. So far, I have been assuming that schools would actually really WANT a foreign student because it gives them good photo-ops and stats for their status reports (perhaps a bit big-headed of me, but it seems reasonable to say that schools like "international reputations"). Yet no professor was rolling out any red carpet for me, so I don't think that preferential treatment is that overboard. Still don't have my grad application results back yet....so it remains to be seen how easy it is to get in. In Hong Kong, there are very few open spaces each year so every professor I talked to told me competition was keen. I still worry that I might get knocked down because I am not a native Chinese speaker and they don't have enough confidence in my language abilities. Yet there was no official pen'n'paper testing of my language abilities...although there were interviews in Mandarin (which I took as unofficial tests).
As for the worth of your degree...well, I guess it depends a lot on where you are going take it. My understanding is that if I get a M.Phil. in Hong Kong and go to the U.S. for a Ph.D., each grad class will be examined on a case-by-case basis. I think the M.Phil. thesis "should" count...but there is still the possibility of having to take quals (depending on the U.S. school's structure). If you were going straight to industry, then it seems really hard to examine it's worth.
No matter what, I think a degree from Hong Kong or Taiwan will raise people's eyebrows (for good or bad). I am not certain that's it is an automatic membership card to the "reserved jobs." Actually, I can't help but think that it won't go anywhere for professorships at certain universities (live Ivy League)...because I get the feeling that have a shortlist of schools they consider (well in that case, there is a lot of American grad schools that probably knock you off the list too).
For me, it's all come down to a personal choice. Screw all the speculation of the jobs, it surely won't kill my future (although it may not skyrocket it). I just personally feel that if I am going to research Chinese linguistics, I better have extensive experience in a Chinese-speaking society. I think that the experience can be valuable no matter what happens (even if the scholarship is not as high-quality as I think). So those are SOME of the major reasons why I'm pursuing it.
The biggest advice I have is talk to your professors. But realize that you can never get a definitive answer on the value of your degree. And U.S. World News blah blah rankings....is of no help of course.
Re: More on Studying in Asiakyllo_in_chinaApril 18 2005, 23:00:46 UTC
Well, I like studying in a Chinese environment like we are now, but I want more and I want better. Mainland China is definitely out of the question for me, as well, for the same reason you mentioned, plus I'm studying the kinds of things that mainland professors are not allowed to teach you. So Taiwan sounds like the most ideal place for me to get an education in a Mandarin-speaking environment.
But yeah, I'm trying to figure this out: since Asian professors who earn degrees in the West are more highly valued at home, does that mean that Westerners who earn degrees in Asia are more or less highly valued? Or just... different? Since all the Asian kids are rushing to US and cramming for the TOEFL to get into American schools, does that mean it's a smart or a dumb idea to do the reverse?
And I realize that individual department reputations are more important, but where do I find that out? Do you think professors in America would be able to tell me?
Anyway, I don't really plan to be a professional scholar; I don't really want to spend my whole life in school. So I don't really care how the degree will look to another university. I definitely want a master's degree, but I'll probably go out and get a job after that.
As for the "automatic membership card to the 'reserved jobs'" thing, I don't think it would guarantee me any particular job in America, it would just serve as pretty much unquestionable proof to an employer that my Chinese is very good, and that I'm very familiar with Chinese society. The other question is, would it make me more attractive to employers in Taiwan or China? It's hard to say, since they seem to worship Western scholarship.
Anyway, I think the most likely option of the three is the second one (or possibly both the first and second ones): Study at a grad school at an American institution that has a good exchange program with a Taiwanese school, and spend a year there. That way, I'll still get a good amount of experience in Taiwan, but I can get an American degree, which may end up more valuable in the long run. I'm starting to think that what I get out of a Taiwanese degree might not be worth what I'd have to put into it.
Thanks a ton for your input though, and please keep me updated as your application process develops. I'm very interested to know how studying in Hong Kong goes for you, and I hope it goes well.
Re: More on Studying in AsiaalissahApril 19 2005, 07:52:40 UTC
Your profs in the U.S. should definintely has some idea of the quality of the departments in Taiwan (if the U.S. profs you are talking to are involved with China Studies at all). The reasoning is because if those Taiwanese profs are doing anything worthwhile then they have been published and are going to conferences...and it's an academic's responsbility to know who's who.
Those other questions you mentioned ("does that mean that Westerners who earn degrees in Asia are more or less highly valued? Or just... different?")... I've thought that over a hundred times and tried to get input from professors...but I didn't get any satisfactory answer. I'd go with the answer "yeah, you're just different."
Oh, btw, you probably already know by now that Hopkins has an exchange with Nanking. I remember they were trying to sell that program in one of my Chinese classes. Expensive and definitely geared to those people who want to work outside of academia. Seems to me that was a full 2-year M.A. program? All in China but profs were from Hopkins or something. That might actually be an interesting solution for you.
Well in a month, hopefully I know what's happening for me in the next two years. I'll update everyone when I find out.
As for the worth of your degree...well, I guess it depends a lot on where you are going take it. My understanding is that if I get a M.Phil. in Hong Kong and go to the U.S. for a Ph.D., each grad class will be examined on a case-by-case basis. I think the M.Phil. thesis "should" count...but there is still the possibility of having to take quals (depending on the U.S. school's structure). If you were going straight to industry, then it seems really hard to examine it's worth.
No matter what, I think a degree from Hong Kong or Taiwan will raise people's eyebrows (for good or bad). I am not certain that's it is an automatic membership card to the "reserved jobs." Actually, I can't help but think that it won't go anywhere for professorships at certain universities (live Ivy League)...because I get the feeling that have a shortlist of schools they consider (well in that case, there is a lot of American grad schools that probably knock you off the list too).
For me, it's all come down to a personal choice. Screw all the speculation of the jobs, it surely won't kill my future (although it may not skyrocket it). I just personally feel that if I am going to research Chinese linguistics, I better have extensive experience in a Chinese-speaking society. I think that the experience can be valuable no matter what happens (even if the scholarship is not as high-quality as I think). So those are SOME of the major reasons why I'm pursuing it.
The biggest advice I have is talk to your professors. But realize that you can never get a definitive answer on the value of your degree. And U.S. World News blah blah rankings....is of no help of course.
Reply
But yeah, I'm trying to figure this out: since Asian professors who earn degrees in the West are more highly valued at home, does that mean that Westerners who earn degrees in Asia are more or less highly valued? Or just... different? Since all the Asian kids are rushing to US and cramming for the TOEFL to get into American schools, does that mean it's a smart or a dumb idea to do the reverse?
And I realize that individual department reputations are more important, but where do I find that out? Do you think professors in America would be able to tell me?
Anyway, I don't really plan to be a professional scholar; I don't really want to spend my whole life in school. So I don't really care how the degree will look to another university. I definitely want a master's degree, but I'll probably go out and get a job after that.
As for the "automatic membership card to the 'reserved jobs'" thing, I don't think it would guarantee me any particular job in America, it would just serve as pretty much unquestionable proof to an employer that my Chinese is very good, and that I'm very familiar with Chinese society. The other question is, would it make me more attractive to employers in Taiwan or China? It's hard to say, since they seem to worship Western scholarship.
Anyway, I think the most likely option of the three is the second one (or possibly both the first and second ones): Study at a grad school at an American institution that has a good exchange program with a Taiwanese school, and spend a year there. That way, I'll still get a good amount of experience in Taiwan, but I can get an American degree, which may end up more valuable in the long run. I'm starting to think that what I get out of a Taiwanese degree might not be worth what I'd have to put into it.
Thanks a ton for your input though, and please keep me updated as your application process develops. I'm very interested to know how studying in Hong Kong goes for you, and I hope it goes well.
Reply
Those other questions you mentioned ("does that mean that Westerners who earn degrees in Asia are more or less highly valued? Or just... different?")... I've thought that over a hundred times and tried to get input from professors...but I didn't get any satisfactory answer. I'd go with the answer "yeah, you're just different."
Oh, btw, you probably already know by now that Hopkins has an exchange with Nanking. I remember they were trying to sell that program in one of my Chinese classes. Expensive and definitely geared to those people who want to work outside of academia. Seems to me that was a full 2-year M.A. program? All in China but profs were from Hopkins or something. That might actually be an interesting solution for you.
Well in a month, hopefully I know what's happening for me in the next two years. I'll update everyone when I find out.
Reply
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