Child murderers
Poll
Why do you feel that way?
My question is prompted by this:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/14/juvenile.killer/index.html
Why do you feel that way?
My question is prompted by this:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/14/juvenile.killer/index.html
How can you NOT?
You cannot honestly tell me that you believe that a child has the same cognitive reasoning ability, and full understanding impact of right and wrong as an adult, do you?
The younger someone is, the lesser their ability to fully understand the principles of right and wrong, but more to the point, to understand the repercussions of those actions.
Taking that a step further, if mental handicap is a viable, legitimate defense due to the same principle of not understanding the repercussions of their actions, (and in some cases, not even the action itself), how is it exactly that children are not provided a reasonable, fair and equitable leniency in the same matters?
I'm not at all saying what the kid did was right, at the same time though, there were PLENTY of red flags going off with this kid already. PLENTY. The real crime it, that it got to this BEFORE anyone was willing to do anything about it. And by the time something like this happens, it is of course, always too late for any type of prohibitive, corrective action to take place.
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Circumstances DO and should play a role in either guilt or innocence, as well as motivation.
If circumstances can, and does, indeed apply to evidence in a case, it should also be weighed into the overall equation and decision of guilt or innocence. Not doing so, isn't really justice. It's a witch hunt.
An action committed out of a reflex response related to the base human survival instinct does not always and necessarily indicate cognitive ability in the same situation. Particularly in times of emotional distress.
There's a difference between someone not KNOWING what they are doing, and someone having the reasoning ability and logistical awareness of the long term impact of a complex action and situation.
You don't use the same logic and reasoning ability in deciding whether or not to go take a crap, as you do to sit down and reason out a financial plan spanning over a period of 30 years.
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Sure you do. It's a fact that everybody needs to 'take a crap', but you still have a choice in the matter which is influenced by things like: 'how bad do I need to go', 'what is the nearest place to be able to go', 'is it acceptible to go here', 'do I /want/ to go here', and who knows what other considerations an individual may have.
People with a flawed sense or reality may feel it's a perfectly acceptable choice to pull down their pants and 'take a crap' in the middle of the school cafeteria, but that doesn't make them any less guilty of having done so. It also doesn't mean that the action should go unanswered just because they are incapable of understanding why it is a grossly inappropriate action.
So they are punished. If the person deciding to 'take a crap' in the middle of the school cafeteria did it because they were mad at some fellow student or some other rational (yet poorly judged) reason, they get suspended. If the person did it because for whatever reason the floor was calling out to them saying 'feed me Seymour!', they still decided to follow it's request and 'take a crap' and need to be removed from school to see whether it is an appropriate place for them to be to begin with.
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Sure you do.
PLEASE tell me you're joking.
MOST 3 year olds know and understand when and why they need to go take a crap. They understand the cause and effect repercussions of that. They have NO concept whatsoever of planning a financial future. Not even a little bit, or the related repercussions surrounding that either.
People with a flawed sense or reality may feel it's a perfectly acceptable choice to pull down their pants and 'take a crap' in the middle of the school cafeteria, but that doesn't make them any less guilty of having done so. It also doesn't mean that the action should go unanswered just because they are incapable of understanding why it is a grossly inappropriate action.
So, when someone is in their senior years, and might do the samething... take their asses out, and beat the crap out of them until they understand and know better. Right?
While going all "retro" is very en vogue these days, it's really not so much for the care of the mentally ill or handicapped.
Here's a word for you. Make it your Word of the Day (so to speak)
empathy : the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also : the capacity for this
For you too, WILL be old someday. With that being said, I sincerely hope you never get put into a facility run by someone with your attitude toward other people with a total lack of compassion, understanding and sympathy.
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I would say I continue to be surprised by the rabid responses that deliberately take a statement and distort it to the wildest extreme, but by now - even in this brief exchange - I'm almost used to it. Are you trying to make me angry and provoke as maligned and verbally violent a response as you are directing at me? In the exchanges we've had so far on this entry have I ever said that someone should 'beat the crap out of' another person until they understand and know better? What I have said repeatedly is that someone should be held accountable for their actions, and that mentally ill or handicapped doesn't excuse them from those actions but only means that what gets handed out as 'punishment' (which should be read as 'the reaction/consequence of their action') should be adjusted accordingly.
While going all "retro" is very en vogue these days, it's really not so much for the care of the mentally ill or handicapped.
And this comment relates to our conversation.. how?
For you too, WILL be old someday. With that being said, I sincerely hope you never get put into a facility run by someone with your attitude toward other people with a total lack of compassion, understanding and sympathy.
And you know about my personal measure of compassion, understanding and sympathy from precisely what; the lack of hand-holding and coddling of a person that took deliberately thought out and lethal actions just because they did not understand they would land in prison for 30 years as a result? Does not understanding the response or gravity to an action make the action itself any less brutal?
As I said before, were there some act of contrition at the time of the event to show that there was some ounce of genuine remorse on the part of the 12 year old boy I would likely hold a very different point of view on the matter and I make no apology for the confidence in my attitude on this or the reasoning I use to illustrate it.
I hope as well that I get put into a facility by someone with the same compassion, understanding and sympathy as myself. I would have the utmost confidence in such a facility that was run by a person like that as well.
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And for the record, I am not arguing either for or against the severity of this particular punishment as I believe circumstances should be considered. However, a blanket statement that any child can not be held accountable due to a lack of understanding is just as wrong as a blanket statement that all children understand.
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Agreed. For the purpose of the original poll and the lengthy discussion resulting from it, my stance centers on this particular story and its participants - not a universal/unyielding 'yes or no' to the question.
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