Yep, Buffy comics are fan fic
I tried reading the Buffy comics and just couldn't stand them.
Season eight seemed to be badly written fan fic to me and I
might have been right.
"Talking more about the Buffy comics, Whedon addressed the "Buffy and Angel ( Read more... )
Season eight seemed to be badly written fan fic to me and I
might have been right.
"Talking more about the Buffy comics, Whedon addressed the "Buffy and Angel ( Read more... )
I assume we're mostly talking about Jeanty's work. I kept wondering who the hell is this ugly little 14 year old...what, that's not Buffy. No way. Willow seems to have a mostly S4 haircut (and why was she wearing Tara's ren-faire OMWF dress in S8? Are they aware of how fucking creepy that is? I'm sorry, but.) Xander was the one who was the most recognizable (he's the guy with the eyepatch) but as his S1-3 self; they'd taken years and pounds off of him the way my sweetie had to make a client look ten years younger when she did his portrait bust.
I'm willing to grant that certain faces are easier to capture than others. people with strong facial planes (often men), or very interesting features (ie older people with a lot of wrinkles) were easier to portray. People with rounder, smoother, softer features (children, some women or people who are very overweight) can be much harder. It's more difficult to "see" the bone structure under the skin. Smooth featureless faces are boring. But Sarah was very thin in S7, and has some very distinct features. Jeanty draws the baby-faced girl of S1 and still gets it wrong.
I know David and Sarah have the rights to their images, but the others didn't get that.
Again I am puzzled. I've read that Jeanty and the artists were instructed to make Buffy "look like Buffy but not like Sarah." WTF? Sarah was Buffy. It's pretty normal in comic book versions of movies and tv shows to try to make the characters on the page look as much like the actors as possible, whether or not that's what is actually achieved. That's the point: it's a freakin' spin off. But if Sarah has rights to her image as Buffy how is it possible to give them that directive?
The fact that Sarah had no idea that Buffy was sleeping with another woman (Satsu) in the comics until she was informed of the fact at the 2008 Paleyfest, makes me assume (perhaps wrongly) that neither she nor David were kept in the loop or gave their ok for the spacefrak, but I don't know that. Maybe they did. Again, I don't know, but I have a hard time imagining that. You've no doubt read the older discussion at gabrielleabelle's journal; Sarah had a no-nudity clause in her contract.
That isn't Buffy. It fanboy wank.
THIS. Buffy robbing a bank was one of the first clues (among many) that the people writing this were totally disengaged from the show. There's a scene late in the series where Buffy believes her enhanced powers (ugh) came from the deaths of those other Slayers and she calls herself a "vampire" but in a way, that's an accurate description of comics Buffy: all of her faults with few to none of her good qualities.
Willow agrees that sometimes Buffy just doesn't listen.
This coming from runneth-at-the-mouth Willow...about Buffy. And btw the bank robbery thing? I have no problem imagining post-series Willow using her laptop to transfer the WC's assets from their Swiss Bank account to the new Council of Slayers (and maybe just putting a wee little bit of cash into Dawn and Buffy's personal accounts because who's going to notice, right?) In fact, I'd say that a lot of Willow's faults in the show get transferred onto Buffy in the comics IMO. The whole "power trip/absolute power corrupts absolutely" theme? that's Willow's arc, not Buffy's trip. Buffy shuts down in S7 when the responsibility becomes overwhelming, but she doesn't start the season that way. And she didn't seek out the Potentials, they were dragged to her door. She was trying to save the world never mind just keep more of these girls from getting killed; she wasn't into controlling them.
Once again Angel does what is best for Angel and to hell with anyone else's feelings.
WORD. Boys will be boys, apparently.
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I have the Paley Fest DVD. Sarah seems to have avoided anything to do with Buffy as much as possible since the show ended. She thought Buffy was with Willow. She was shocked to find out it was another slayer. I think it was Seth who explained what happen to Sarah.
Buffy in the TV series spoke about human law and said it wasn't her place to deal with that. Humans were outside her job. She let the law deal with that. Buffy working at the Doublemeat Palace made sense. Buffy being a bank robber was not Buffy. Buffy was too moral to rob banks.
That conversation between Willow and Angel pissed me off no end. It was blaming the victim instead of the abuser. Angel always made choices for Buffy and tried to force them on her. Hank, Giles, the Council, Riley and Angel all tried to control Buffy while not supporting her opinions on anything.
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In keeping with the in-story characterizations.
To be fair Sarah has nothing to do with the comics because it's not her job. She isn't paid to be involved with them or promote them. She speaks with great pride of the series on every recent interview I've seen, even when she's promoting other series. She said in the HuffPost interview that we need more Buffys, more female heros, and that there is a definite lack of such characters for women over 35 especially.
Buffy being a bank robber was not Buffy. Buffy was too moral to rob banks.
PREACH. That was just - I have no words for it. Then in a later issue "Twilight" says they have to break down her "moral certainty". the point of the series was that Buffy's worldview goes from being black and white to shades of grey. (By Chosen almost everyone fighting on her side had murdered someone another human being let alone demons. Except Xander.) So where the hell does this moral certainty nonsense come from?
It was blaming the victim instead of the abuser.
THIS - this is so gross.
Hank, Giles, the Council, Riley and Angel all tried to control Buffy while not supporting her opinions on anything.
I'm glad you included Riley in there because the way he treated her pissed me off to no end - or rather the writers saying that they agreed with him that she drove him away did; he gets to show up as the paragon of mental health in S6? He blames her for his infidelity, abusing her trust and her body? NO. Just no. It really says a lot about the writers mindset when things like that or the spacefrak are blown off. It's revictimizing the victim.
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Riley...reminds me of my ex. My ex wasn't a strong man. He would blame others for his actions. Instead of talking about problems he would use them as excuses to do whatever he wanted no matter who got hurt. It turn his family, his children and me against him. Now he is a lonely guy on his third marriage which is very unhappy. Like Buffy, I made excuses for him and finally just had to cut him loose. So things Riley did bother me as well.
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It's hard to take the thing with Sweet seriously because Joss clearly didn't; that was just very poorly thought-out.
I used to like Riley, although rewatching Doomed made me wonder why - he's patronizing and calls Buffy "stupid" for not wanting to get into a relationship with him, and at the end she's on his lap kissing him. I still can't figure out how him going to vamp whores is in any way Buffy's fault, or how she drove him away, how the writers could come to that conclusion after the fact. It breaks my heart in Intervention that Buffy doesn't even believe her mom knew she loved her when there's nothing on screen that would make me think that for a second.
It's like the comics - the things that happen that make me scratch my head and wonder how can anyone who calls themselves a "feminist" *shoots daggers at Joss* claim to be ok with this.
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I think Joss thought of Xander as being him. So Xander got away with all kinds of things. So no one confronted Xander or blamed him about the man who died dancing for Sweet.
Buffy wanted things to work with Riley so badly. He was her chance at normal which he was anything, but normal. It's why she clung to the relationship. Buffy's self esteem was low when it came to relationships. She always believed it was her and that she couldn't make them work. And it didn't help that Xander took Riley's side in it all. Xander just didn't want Buffy with a vampire and since he couldn't have her, he wanted her with Riley no matter what.
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I've seen discussion where people say that Xander is "sexist but not a misogynist" but - that's a pretty fine distinction to make, and I'm not sure there's a solid line between the two.
BTW I have another theory as to Xander's motivation in ITW: Riley was sort of Xander's alter-ego. (Remember in Halloween in S2 his costume was "soldier"? He's also a soldier in Restless.) that's not how he sees himself in reality but wishes he were. He doesn't do anything like take martial arts or self-defense classes though. He just complains. And he also complains about not having male friends but doesn't do anything about that either. Riley is both an idealized version of himself, and at the same time a "normal guy" who likes him and he can pal around with. (Almost like an older brother, really.)
I'm not saying it replaces the idea of Riley not being a vampire, but I think it's part of the mix. (Also, Xander was using Buffy to practice the things he wanted to say to Anya. He's really talking about himself "the long haul guy.")
It really makes me ache that when Buffy starts the series she's wounded from her father's pulling away, she'll be wounded by Angel and Giles, but at the start of S4 she's telling Willow that she still thinks love has to involve some pain. Meaning, she still believes in love and that she can find it eventually. It's only after Riley dumps her and Joyce dies that Buffy starts saying she's unlovable and unable to love. That - breaks my heart. *hugs Buffy*
And I know what you mean about males, oh dear do I ever. I lot of people have problems with the depiction of dads in the series; I really don't because -well, I've never known a loving father. My dad died, two alcoholic ex-stepfathers...so the father figures in the series fit my reality pretty well.
Btw, if you get a chance to read my meta (I'm proud of it, hence the self-pimage): http://red-satin-doll.livejournal.com/13017.html I think (hope?) you'll like it.
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I totally think Xander thought if he couldn't get Buffy, then Riley was acceptable second. And Xander didn't really feel that Riley going to vamps for suck jobs was Riley's fault. He laid that at Buffy's feet. She wasn't paying attention to Riley so it was her fault. Like being the Slayer, taking care of her mother and her sister, protecting Dawn from Glory and etc wasn't enough.
Riley's self esteem took a hit when he lost Maggie and the Army. He lost his whole idea of who he was and then he found out about the chip in his chest. He knew he wouldn't be able to keep up with Buffy so he pouted and got jealous. He wanted to be the "Man" to Buffy's little woman. Heck even Joyce didn't need a man to take care of her. That lifestyle wasn't in the cards for Buffy. Riley just wasn't a good fit for her.
I really hated Riley in "As You Where". Riley could have told her about Sam, but he chose to keep it quiet till Sam showed up. I feel like he wanted to rub it in Buffy's face. Buffy saw what Riley and Sam had and it was what she had wanted. Sam looked up to Riley and depended on him in a way that Buffy would never have done. Riley showed up and forced Buffy to look at her life. That was what forced her to deal with her depression. It was the turning point for her. I just think he was kinda shitty about how he did it.
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He found fault with Cordy and Anya since they were not Buffy.
My opinion? His treatment of Cordy and Anya would have happened regardless of Buffy; that's from his father. (Unfortunately we don't see Mr Harris until HB but in this case Xander's behavior is consistent enough from the beginning that we don't have to wait until S6 to infer that.)
The three women whom he's sexually attracted to are all slut-shamed because for him attraction includes an element of possession. (Women have been "owned" by men for centuries. The Slayer/WC dynamic is actually a good metaphor for that.) Willow is the only one who escapes being being on the receiving end of his shaming or jealousy except for that brief period in S3 he's never sexually attracted to Willow. If anything he tends to ignore he - totally misses her attraction to him.
This is NOT to say that if someone is attracted to you, you're obliged to return it. It doesn't work that way. But if Xander is "one of the girls" to Buffy, then Willow is "one of the guys" to Xander.
Which is why Grave irks me; it's part of Xander's arc to be "a better man", but he's never NOT loved Willow in his way. Their friendship has never been in doubt. He's never thrown contempt hate or scorn at her; so it doesn't entirely. That scene would have worked better thematically with Anya or Cordy going evil. (His scene with Buffy in SR where he says that she used to confide in him re: her personal life also doesn't work for me - Willow was her confidante S1-3. Was he ever her confidante again esp after Becoming?)
He laid that at Buffy's feet.
Rebcake had a great phrase for this: "Flinging blame like Mardi Gras beads" http://red-satin-doll.livejournal.com/17153.html?thread=352001#t352001 I disagree with her that Riley wasn't also placing blame on her, because he totally was, and for all the reasons you listed. So - agree with your analysis of Riley. As far as Riley being a good fit for her - I'm not sure that any man could be. Who knows? I think they actually could have been good friends, if Riley hadn't been such an ass.
And I do get that Riley was hurting, that he had issues, etc - but, I'm sorry. Dawn has MUCH bigger identify issues than Riley does.
Sam looked up to Riley and depended on him in a way that Buffy would never have done.
I'd have to watch the episode again - GAG - but I recall her giving back as good as she got verbally. There was a nice dynamic there between them (although in what military operation would a married couple be allowed to work together, much less in the same chain of command?) What's ironic is what they have is pretty much what Buffy wanted and imagined she had with RIley, and what he DIDN'T want: an equal partner, someone to trust for support.
That was what forced her to deal with her depression.
Making HIM the poster boy for emotional health? in the same season where Giles and Xander come swooping in to the rescue and be the Big Damn Heros of S6? Sorry but no. And depression doesn't work that way anyway.
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I think seeing her life through Riley's eyes was when Buffy decided to end it with Spike and that was the beginning of her taking steps to work on her life. Before that she just used Spike to push away her pain. She admitted she was using him and how it hurt her. It was seeing her current life compared to Riley and Sam's that jarred her into change. She still had lots of things to work on, but that was a turning point for her. That was what I meant.
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