my bad dude, I watched some Bill Hicks recently... I just want to point out what I see as obvious...cubaricanOctober 14 2005, 03:59:24 UTC
what about death rates? I've always kinda seen the whole "why the poor thing" as the actual people out there doing the dying. are the people that have something to lose actually "on the lines," so to speak? or are the enlisted "rich" predominately officers and people in charge safe in the back giving orders? brings strong significance to the word "send." whose doing the sending? - those in power; those that want war. why can't they fight their war by themselves instead of convincing the public and making it a nationalistic fad to rally behind? that's kinda what I thought that song was about. yeah, it is the lefty view. whoopty do, but it's their critique of the right's actions. and in my mind the point is that the government can do what it wants, independent of the people (unless the people really don't agree with it). and we're all expected to and ridiculed into following along, or else your leftist and you're evil badness *hiss.* what's made the politics so rough the past several years has been the near 50/50 on the American opinion on everything. it's an interesting time, gotta love it.
do you think the "poor" represents the average middle class person, the average person without POWER, and not neccessarily and exclusively the fiscally impoverished? of course the "poor" aren't the majority of people out there fighting and dying... that's because the majority of Americans aren't in poverty. the military as an appendage of our culture, naturally, is going to have an equal amount of class representation. pick ten Americans to represent the people at large and you're gonna have something like one really rich guy, one really poor guy and the rest in the middle. is it possible, maybe, that "poor" translates out to mean "average person." the question in question makes a little more sense that way, doesn't it? this data is implying that, no, the average person is not the majority of the military's recruitment. which is a hair odd... and a statement untrue within itself.
and out of these supposed recruits, what is the mean age? aren't the majority of military recruits on the shy side of 20? (recruits, not active duty. very important!) does this financial data take into account the possibility that these recruits might be claimed as dependents under their provider's handsome incomes? as in, all this cash they supposedly have upon recruitment that makes them not "poor," is it really their own? the idea of the military's recruitment being young AND rich smells fishy to me, that's an unusal very small minority of Americans giving up EVERYTHING they have here at home to go fight and serve. but I guess that's what this overwhelming number of the young rich people are doing these days, yup. they win the lotto, they plan out careers and earn 6 figure incomes in less than two years fresh out of highschool. then they join the military, I don't know, cause they've accomplished so much in life already and they need a thrill. *shrug.* and I thought most young people leaned to left, kinda weird for them to be going off and joining the war.
and "always," doesn't that imply more wars than just this one? and maybe "they" implies more than just American wars? maybe the entire statement has something to say about other countries too, not just ours. do you think the "poor" make up most of the military forces in countries like North Korea, China or Iraq? and maybe the "poor" thing is also a statement about whose war this is, as in, this is the rich man's war, let him fight it for himself. the poor man shouldn't be having to do his dirty work. but that boils down to lefty and righty and whether or not you agree with the war or not or any war for that matter. this is politics man, we've all gotta deal with each other. and Serj, based off of this, sounds like an anarchist; rather, someone who feels okay with questioning the often unclear motives of government. to him, crazy evil people are taking over the world in the name of the dollar... have a little sympathy, he's speaking out for what he believes in. just like me and you or anyone esle that gives a flip.
like you said, theres no draft, and its a volunteer army.ktt52krabbidakeOctober 14 2005, 04:36:35 UTC
meh. Serj is a drug addled moron.
its a misleading song with irrelevant lyrics. riling up the idiot masses is deceitful. Bill Hicks, ultimately, is for entertainment. when he actually hits on something pertinent, it's drug addled savant rant. something to start up conversation, but not to make a point in debate by any means.
I would take a look at the actual debate I lifted this from:
Re: like you said, theres no draft, and its a volunteer army.cubaricanOctober 14 2005, 15:37:07 UTC
just because he doesn't support everything America does doesn't make him a moron... and the same is true for the rest of the people that could simpathize. your strokes are pretty broad too, ya know. I was under the impression that all men are created equal... everyone but Serj, Bill Hicks and Al Franken, apparently.
"rilling up the idiot masses is deceitful." isn't that what Savage does? it's just two different sides of the same annoying coin.
and just because you don't agree with something doesn't automatically make it a drug addled rant. that's the employed use of something called self-righteousness. and in Islam... one of the greatest sins is arrogance. but they're a bunch of satan worshipping, fundamentalist, backward wackos... and no one should believe in any of their lies. (or so, the likes of Savage would like us to believe.)
and there aren't many songs that that aren't misleading and irrevelant. there are zillions of examples to support that.
I'll end this with saying that I like to think for myself. and so do you. and I thank the forefathers and their ideas of god for it. and yes, god bless America, but only the good parts.
that, and I'm glad we can laugh about this kind of stuff. I enjoy sparring with you, man.
do you think the "poor" represents the average middle class person, the average person without POWER, and not neccessarily and exclusively the fiscally impoverished? of course the "poor" aren't the majority of people out there fighting and dying... that's because the majority of Americans aren't in poverty. the military as an appendage of our culture, naturally, is going to have an equal amount of class representation. pick ten Americans to represent the people at large and you're gonna have something like one really rich guy, one really poor guy and the rest in the middle. is it possible, maybe, that "poor" translates out to mean "average person." the question in question makes a little more sense that way, doesn't it? this data is implying that, no, the average person is not the majority of the military's recruitment. which is a hair odd... and a statement untrue within itself.
and out of these supposed recruits, what is the mean age? aren't the majority of military recruits on the shy side of 20? (recruits, not active duty. very important!) does this financial data take into account the possibility that these recruits might be claimed as dependents under their provider's handsome incomes? as in, all this cash they supposedly have upon recruitment that makes them not "poor," is it really their own? the idea of the military's recruitment being young AND rich smells fishy to me, that's an unusal very small minority of Americans giving up EVERYTHING they have here at home to go fight and serve. but I guess that's what this overwhelming number of the young rich people are doing these days, yup. they win the lotto, they plan out careers and earn 6 figure incomes in less than two years fresh out of highschool. then they join the military, I don't know, cause they've accomplished so much in life already and they need a thrill. *shrug.* and I thought most young people leaned to left, kinda weird for them to be going off and joining the war.
and "always," doesn't that imply more wars than just this one? and maybe "they" implies more than just American wars? maybe the entire statement has something to say about other countries too, not just ours. do you think the "poor" make up most of the military forces in countries like North Korea, China or Iraq? and maybe the "poor" thing is also a statement about whose war this is, as in, this is the rich man's war, let him fight it for himself. the poor man shouldn't be having to do his dirty work. but that boils down to lefty and righty and whether or not you agree with the war or not or any war for that matter. this is politics man, we've all gotta deal with each other. and Serj, based off of this, sounds like an anarchist; rather, someone who feels okay with questioning the often unclear motives of government. to him, crazy evil people are taking over the world in the name of the dollar... have a little sympathy, he's speaking out for what he believes in. just like me and you or anyone esle that gives a flip.
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its a misleading song with irrelevant lyrics.
riling up the idiot masses is deceitful.
Bill Hicks, ultimately, is for entertainment. when he actually hits on something pertinent, it's drug addled savant rant.
something to start up conversation, but not to make a point in debate by any means.
I would take a look at the actual debate I lifted this from:
http://www.livejournal.com/community/conservatism/2233223.html?nc=91
Reply
"rilling up the idiot masses is deceitful." isn't that what Savage does? it's just two different sides of the same annoying coin.
and just because you don't agree with something doesn't automatically make it a drug addled rant. that's the employed use of something called self-righteousness. and in Islam... one of the greatest sins is arrogance. but they're a bunch of satan worshipping, fundamentalist, backward wackos... and no one should believe in any of their lies. (or so, the likes of Savage would like us to believe.)
and there aren't many songs that that aren't misleading and irrevelant. there are zillions of examples to support that.
I'll end this with saying that I like to think for myself. and so do you. and I thank the forefathers and their ideas of god for it. and yes, god bless America, but only the good parts.
that, and I'm glad we can laugh about this kind of stuff. I enjoy sparring with you, man.
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